Kabayan Bert -
REUR suggestion to declare Martial Law, who do
you expect to execute it?
The incumbent administration which is peppered
with innumerable charges---factfual or fictional,
of being the most corrupt government since the
islands of 7,000 (to borrow the lingo of JM) turned
to become a Republic?
If we'll rely with the military establishment, the
Armed Forces, headed by General Ibrado, granting
that the current Chief-of-Staff is a man of integrity;
nonetheless, we would find ourselves in a deeper
moral and legal quagmire.
What is the mandate of the Armed Forces to rule
the nation?
What is our assurance that the jailers of the false
leaders of today, will not turn out to become false
leaders themselves after a year or two?
In any social contract, the other party must have
the consent---kasalan man, or business partnership
both must signify their willing volition that none
of them were coerced.
To place the recidivist false national political leaders
in straight jackets sounds romantic.
But...but, by what virtue the implementors of Martial
Law draw their authority from?
Masalimuot ang surilanin ng luhaang bansang Pilipinas.
Hay, bayan ko...
Thursday, September 3, 2009
BOB GABUNA 4 Sept 09
I have no problem when the state employs police
powers to protect the people from threats both
external and internal.
I know how to shoot, in fact, I am a sharpshooter
with a rifle. I could cock a Cal .45 pistol with a
single hand.
My problem, however, is:
Who is going to administer Martial Law? And for
how long?
How are we going to install the Martial Law rule?
Via coup d'etat?
Via revolution initiated by the citizenry?
How much percentage is tolerable as collateral
damage?
Who shall determine that enough of the internicine
fight is enough?
What are the determinants?
It is easy to start a civil war. But how easy is it to
declare cessation of hostilities?
Yes, there is a need to uproot the weeds that grows
in our garden. But we have to be careful in the
weeding process; otherwise we would be uprooting
wheat, rather than the weeds.
I don't have pat answer to the problem that beset
the land. But I had been there done that as far as
Martial Law is concerned, EDSA 1 and 2, and this
God Save the Queen failed adventures (I did not
join).
The cure, Martial Law, might even turn out worst than
the ailment that afflicts the land.
What I believe is: a Nehemiah like leader who has a
heart for the people, and humble enough to fear GOD.
Bob
powers to protect the people from threats both
external and internal.
I know how to shoot, in fact, I am a sharpshooter
with a rifle. I could cock a Cal .45 pistol with a
single hand.
My problem, however, is:
Who is going to administer Martial Law? And for
how long?
How are we going to install the Martial Law rule?
Via coup d'etat?
Via revolution initiated by the citizenry?
How much percentage is tolerable as collateral
damage?
Who shall determine that enough of the internicine
fight is enough?
What are the determinants?
It is easy to start a civil war. But how easy is it to
declare cessation of hostilities?
Yes, there is a need to uproot the weeds that grows
in our garden. But we have to be careful in the
weeding process; otherwise we would be uprooting
wheat, rather than the weeds.
I don't have pat answer to the problem that beset
the land. But I had been there done that as far as
Martial Law is concerned, EDSA 1 and 2, and this
God Save the Queen failed adventures (I did not
join).
The cure, Martial Law, might even turn out worst than
the ailment that afflicts the land.
What I believe is: a Nehemiah like leader who has a
heart for the people, and humble enough to fear GOD.
Bob
NELSON A. PAGUYO, 4 Sept 2009
Hi Dennis,
Thank you for your suggestion. Actually OFCI already has programs which we believe will rally some form of unity. I am not sure whether you’re a member of OFCI. If you are you should have received copies of our community development programs posted several times in the past and of which SHNP is a part. The unfortunate thing is very few wants to take the leadership positions to move the programs. Just as an example people were nominated to become officers of the OFCI Philippine Chapter. Out of the many recommendations only one acknowledged the appointment. And there is problem. Why wait to participate until success is at hand. It is starting projects that are the most critical stage of any program, don’t you think so? Bob’s story of the Canadian Pinoys clearly confirmed such behavior. Why this is the case is the intension of the thread I started.
OFCI’s SHNP (self–help nutrition program) was started in March 2009 in the different areas of the Philippines. So far we have already over 40 barangays involved and expanding rapidly. Our community development programs are all self–help and self propagating. We could do a better job if we have the resources to provide seed–moneys to these communities. Again we have called for help thru donations. Guess what none came except from the few members who are already active and willing to put their time, efforts and moneys where their mouth is.
I encourage you Dennis to participate in OFCI’s projects to help rally our people. If you want to help besides actually participating your donation will be most welcome.
Take care and have a good day.
Nelson
PS: Whoever is reading I invite you to become a member of OFCI – if you are a person of action and not otherwise. This is a call for UNITY you bet.
Thank you for your suggestion. Actually OFCI already has programs which we believe will rally some form of unity. I am not sure whether you’re a member of OFCI. If you are you should have received copies of our community development programs posted several times in the past and of which SHNP is a part. The unfortunate thing is very few wants to take the leadership positions to move the programs. Just as an example people were nominated to become officers of the OFCI Philippine Chapter. Out of the many recommendations only one acknowledged the appointment. And there is problem. Why wait to participate until success is at hand. It is starting projects that are the most critical stage of any program, don’t you think so? Bob’s story of the Canadian Pinoys clearly confirmed such behavior. Why this is the case is the intension of the thread I started.
OFCI’s SHNP (self–help nutrition program) was started in March 2009 in the different areas of the Philippines. So far we have already over 40 barangays involved and expanding rapidly. Our community development programs are all self–help and self propagating. We could do a better job if we have the resources to provide seed–moneys to these communities. Again we have called for help thru donations. Guess what none came except from the few members who are already active and willing to put their time, efforts and moneys where their mouth is.
I encourage you Dennis to participate in OFCI’s projects to help rally our people. If you want to help besides actually participating your donation will be most welcome.
Take care and have a good day.
Nelson
PS: Whoever is reading I invite you to become a member of OFCI – if you are a person of action and not otherwise. This is a call for UNITY you bet.
DENNIS DE GUZMAN 4 Sept 2009
Mr Nelson Paguyo,
OFCI
Sir:
I remember that there were many suggestions already in the "library" of the OFCI about concrete projects that offer solutions to our country's problems. Why don't the OFCI use those projects as a rallying point for UNITY. The OFCI has taken the first step. It is about time to move forward again. Make those projects successful and people will follow. As they say, "You cannot argue with success." Ask for support for those projects so it can become bigger success affecting more lives.
To start something big you can start with something small but scalable. You do not need to worry about unity, you only need people who are "believers" in the cause. After a while, a small project can become a movement for nation building.
I am sure i am not the only one who wants to hear about the progress of those projects.
Sincerely,
Dennis de Guzman
- isang ex-OFW mula sa Geneva (na ngayon ay nasa Pilipinas)
OFCI
Sir:
I remember that there were many suggestions already in the "library" of the OFCI about concrete projects that offer solutions to our country's problems. Why don't the OFCI use those projects as a rallying point for UNITY. The OFCI has taken the first step. It is about time to move forward again. Make those projects successful and people will follow. As they say, "You cannot argue with success." Ask for support for those projects so it can become bigger success affecting more lives.
To start something big you can start with something small but scalable. You do not need to worry about unity, you only need people who are "believers" in the cause. After a while, a small project can become a movement for nation building.
I am sure i am not the only one who wants to hear about the progress of those projects.
Sincerely,
Dennis de Guzman
- isang ex-OFW mula sa Geneva (na ngayon ay nasa Pilipinas)
BOB GABUNA 4 Sept 09
DITO tayo na bog down sa "how", eh.
I recall my readings in military history. Circa
WW II, a two star rank general---a strategic
thinker, thought aloud addressing his staff:
Do you have an idea how we could immobilize
these German U-boats?
The following day, a brash young lieutenant
barged the inner sanctorum of his boss: Sir,
I have the idea.
Two Star General: At ease, boy. Spill it out.
Brash 2nd Lt: Why don't we heat up the floor
of Atlantic Ocean to compel these U-boats to
surface?
Two Star General: Brilliant idea son. But
how are we going to carry it out?
Brash 2nd Lt: Sir, I gave the concept, it's
the turn of others to work out the "how"!
Your turn...
Bob
////////////////////////////////////////////
I recall my readings in military history. Circa
WW II, a two star rank general---a strategic
thinker, thought aloud addressing his staff:
Do you have an idea how we could immobilize
these German U-boats?
The following day, a brash young lieutenant
barged the inner sanctorum of his boss: Sir,
I have the idea.
Two Star General: At ease, boy. Spill it out.
Brash 2nd Lt: Why don't we heat up the floor
of Atlantic Ocean to compel these U-boats to
surface?
Two Star General: Brilliant idea son. But
how are we going to carry it out?
Brash 2nd Lt: Sir, I gave the concept, it's
the turn of others to work out the "how"!
Your turn...
Bob
////////////////////////////////////////////
ANACLETO BELLEZA MILLENDEZ
TEAMWORK is UNITY. My formula for TEAMWORK (TW) is"
TW=3Cs+3Ps
where C represents Communication, Coordination and Cooperation
P represents Professionalism, Production and Perfection
TW=3Cs+3Ps
where C represents Communication, Coordination and Cooperation
P represents Professionalism, Production and Perfection
JM NEPOMUCENO, 4 Sept. 09
The PRIMARY responsibility rests on the FILIPINO VOTERS, the majority of whom placed those people at the top.
This is a MAJOR CHANGE in ATTITUDE required of US, FILIPINO CITIZENS.
WE must accept COLLECTIVE ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY for ALL THE MESS that WE have been ALLOWING to happen over and over again since JANUARY 2001.
The SILENT MAJORITY who do NOT get out into the streets to EXPRESS their COLLECTIVE SOVEREIGN WILL is PRIMARILY accountable and responsible BY DEFAULT.
JM
This is a MAJOR CHANGE in ATTITUDE required of US, FILIPINO CITIZENS.
WE must accept COLLECTIVE ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY for ALL THE MESS that WE have been ALLOWING to happen over and over again since JANUARY 2001.
The SILENT MAJORITY who do NOT get out into the streets to EXPRESS their COLLECTIVE SOVEREIGN WILL is PRIMARILY accountable and responsible BY DEFAULT.
JM
NELSON A. PAGUYO, 4 Sept 2009
Here are two different conclusions from our intellectuals. Who is right or who is to blame is not the issue. How do we overcome our differences is the issue.
The Philippines is the patient. It is very sick in intensive care if not dead as Dr. Bert said.
The rich influential, politicians and the behavior of the masses are the symptoms of our sick motherland – my educated assessment.
Nelson
The Philippines is the patient. It is very sick in intensive care if not dead as Dr. Bert said.
The rich influential, politicians and the behavior of the masses are the symptoms of our sick motherland – my educated assessment.
Nelson
TUMBAGANG ISDA , 3 Sept 2009
Sep 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Tumbagang Isda wrote:
Personally, I don’t think our fragmented society is to blame, not the regionalistic loyalties, etc…
The real problem is money, and responsibility with the employer, and everything has to do with it and not what we all think, it has to do with family responsibility!
Unity itself is possible, JCNM and I attempted this if you can remember, it gave one sour taste in my mouth, it was so bad, I can still taste it now….
Remember last year when WE aim to send a message, remember that this was only one DAY! That we cannot live with the way it is so we are taking a day off, Bonifacio’s birthday!
I got what I requested in Hong Kong, but not in the Middle East and the US even though it was the weekend in the US! I say Hong Kong Filipinos are UNITED and they know what is needed, but what about the rest of us? What did we do, I am not happy with the result, Bonifacio’s Birth day fell on Ramadan, even better in the Middle East, you see, but this is not so for them,
We cannot unite to save our families!
If in uniting, we can show muscle we should! It is about time! This is war.
We got united on that stupid TV show, housewives something something … didn’t we? What about real stuff!! Real issues!
Personally, I don’t think our fragmented society is to blame, not the regionalistic loyalties, etc…
The real problem is money, and responsibility with the employer, and everything has to do with it and not what we all think, it has to do with family responsibility!
Unity itself is possible, JCNM and I attempted this if you can remember, it gave one sour taste in my mouth, it was so bad, I can still taste it now….
Remember last year when WE aim to send a message, remember that this was only one DAY! That we cannot live with the way it is so we are taking a day off, Bonifacio’s birthday!
I got what I requested in Hong Kong, but not in the Middle East and the US even though it was the weekend in the US! I say Hong Kong Filipinos are UNITED and they know what is needed, but what about the rest of us? What did we do, I am not happy with the result, Bonifacio’s Birth day fell on Ramadan, even better in the Middle East, you see, but this is not so for them,
We cannot unite to save our families!
If in uniting, we can show muscle we should! It is about time! This is war.
We got united on that stupid TV show, housewives something something … didn’t we? What about real stuff!! Real issues!
NELSON A. PAGUYO, 3 Sept 2009
On Behalf Of NELSON A PAGUYO
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:57 PM
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS/Symptom 1
After reading the latest postings [including that of JM] of “How to Unite the Filipinos”, I chose to post my comments in this particular email because of Bob’s story of the Canadian Filipinos and Emma’s response which are characteristic behaviors we Filipinos have.
The discussion on How to Unite the Filipinos have been labeled as an exercise in futility, useless, time and effort consuming that such energies be best served by attacking the many problems of our society. In a way the comments are appropriate and to a certain extent correct. On the other hand focusing on the problems and trying to remedy the problems of our Filipino society had been tried many times before without appreciable good result. Perhaps the reasons for the failures are efforts of treatment directed to the problems of the country without truly understanding what it is. It is like administering to a patient without knowing the diagnosis. And the PATIENT [to me] is our FRAGMENTED SOCIETY and our major symptom is our inability to unite.
I would submit to all that the story shared by Bob is one symptom of our society. Then there is poverty, indolence, regionalism, materialism, willingness to sacrifice and take advantage of opportunities [good or bad], etc. This posting will be followed by 2 which demonstrate other symptoms of the Filipino society.
Since the start of the discussion the topic had branched out to other areas that it is difficult [for me at least] to follow and weave a coherent conclusion for my own understanding.
I thought I’ll start a new thread after the 2 posting.
Thanks for your patience.
Nelson
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:57 PM
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS/Symptom 1
After reading the latest postings [including that of JM] of “How to Unite the Filipinos”, I chose to post my comments in this particular email because of Bob’s story of the Canadian Filipinos and Emma’s response which are characteristic behaviors we Filipinos have.
The discussion on How to Unite the Filipinos have been labeled as an exercise in futility, useless, time and effort consuming that such energies be best served by attacking the many problems of our society. In a way the comments are appropriate and to a certain extent correct. On the other hand focusing on the problems and trying to remedy the problems of our Filipino society had been tried many times before without appreciable good result. Perhaps the reasons for the failures are efforts of treatment directed to the problems of the country without truly understanding what it is. It is like administering to a patient without knowing the diagnosis. And the PATIENT [to me] is our FRAGMENTED SOCIETY and our major symptom is our inability to unite.
I would submit to all that the story shared by Bob is one symptom of our society. Then there is poverty, indolence, regionalism, materialism, willingness to sacrifice and take advantage of opportunities [good or bad], etc. This posting will be followed by 2 which demonstrate other symptoms of the Filipino society.
Since the start of the discussion the topic had branched out to other areas that it is difficult [for me at least] to follow and weave a coherent conclusion for my own understanding.
I thought I’ll start a new thread after the 2 posting.
Thanks for your patience.
Nelson
EMMA OROZCO, 2 Sept 2009
It appears in the postings here that the Filipino people unite, when there is someone or some people are oppressed, to fight the oppressor. This is a good sign that we are for oppression nr for oppressive people and that we can recognize one when a situation occurs.
Ont he subject of the Canadian Filipinos who refused at first to back up a Filipino political candidate, a glaring attitude surfaces: sigurista ang Pinoy. Those who did not show their preference at that time revealed their competitive upmanship, he desire to be a winner at all times. I think that is a negative attitude that we should correct: every step in a political struggle brings up a lesson that in turn will point to a bettter step that should be taken. Hence, there should not be any fear of failure. We can unite on an issue or several issues so long as we believe that we should stick together throught thick and think if we know that they are significantor the results are to our well-being. Emma
Ont he subject of the Canadian Filipinos who refused at first to back up a Filipino political candidate, a glaring attitude surfaces: sigurista ang Pinoy. Those who did not show their preference at that time revealed their competitive upmanship, he desire to be a winner at all times. I think that is a negative attitude that we should correct: every step in a political struggle brings up a lesson that in turn will point to a bettter step that should be taken. Hence, there should not be any fear of failure. We can unite on an issue or several issues so long as we believe that we should stick together throught thick and think if we know that they are significantor the results are to our well-being. Emma
BOB GABUNA 2 Sept 09
Mahirap ang maging purist. (I am invoking Rule 6, tama ba).
Kasi, wala namang pure Tagalog, wala ring pure Hiligaynon.
A number of our vocabularies were coined either from English
or Hispanic languages.
Some are even corrupted words.
On the subj of uniting Filipinos, let me share two specific
firsthand experiences that expat Pinoys based in Winnipeg
unite:
When Dr Rey Pagtakhan, a native of Cavite, run for the Parliament
in 1988, then I was a newcomer in Canada, the community was
buzzing with intrigues that a Canadian of Filipino descent have this
grandiose plans to be political kingpin, which was never done by
a Pinoy.
Being an idealist, although am not qualified to vote yet, I posted
the placard of Dr Rey PAGTAKHAN in the townhouse I am staying.
The compound is a housing unit occupied by members from various
ethnic community. Eighty-five percent (85%), of the occupants are
Pinoy.
Curiously, out 200 Filipino households, I was the only one who
carried the campaign placard of Dr Pagtakhan. Asking around why
the rest of our kababayan did not display the placard of Dr Pagtakhan,
the uniform reply I got was, "Paano kung matalo? 'Di, nakakahiya!".
Fortunately for me, Dr Pagtakhan, a U.P. graduate of Medicine won.
Eventually Dr Pagtakhan served as Parliamentary Secretary to the
Prime Minister of Canada.
When parliamentary elections were called in the subsequent years,
Pinoys in Winnipeg found their identify and pride that they are Pinoy.
Practically, all Canadian-Filipinos eligible to vote, turned out and
cast their support to Dr Pagtakhan. The compound where I stayed,
were littered with campaign placards of Dr Pagtakhan. For 18 years,
it appeared that Dr Pagtakhan is invincible as Member of the
Parliament.
Dr Pagtakhan gained the moniker of invincibility because the Pinoys
in Winnipeg united behind him.
The other occasion where Pinoys in Winnipeg came together and
unite was the event when opinion leaders in the Filipino Community
denounced the discriminatory act committed by Canada's largest
grocery department store----Supervalu.
The Fiipino Journal, and Good Morning Philippines (radio program)
brought the case to the Filipino Community about the mag lola
who were illegally frisked after paying their purchases on sheer
suspicion that the apo stole a candy bar. The lola looks like a
Native person. Akala ng store clerk, si lola ay Native.
Citywide boycott was launched. The store suffered loses of $50K
a day, since the other members of the migrant community joined us.
Those who migrated from Vietnam, India, and Pakistan sympathized
with us.
A year later, the headquarters of Supervalu sought reconciliation
with the Filipino Community.
I am in privy to the above described situation because I was an
active participant and planner in carrying out those moves.
Yes, Pinoys, have the ability to unite kung gustohin nilang magka
isa.
To unite for the betterment of the birthland, it must be willed.
Bob
Kasi, wala namang pure Tagalog, wala ring pure Hiligaynon.
A number of our vocabularies were coined either from English
or Hispanic languages.
Some are even corrupted words.
On the subj of uniting Filipinos, let me share two specific
firsthand experiences that expat Pinoys based in Winnipeg
unite:
When Dr Rey Pagtakhan, a native of Cavite, run for the Parliament
in 1988, then I was a newcomer in Canada, the community was
buzzing with intrigues that a Canadian of Filipino descent have this
grandiose plans to be political kingpin, which was never done by
a Pinoy.
Being an idealist, although am not qualified to vote yet, I posted
the placard of Dr Rey PAGTAKHAN in the townhouse I am staying.
The compound is a housing unit occupied by members from various
ethnic community. Eighty-five percent (85%), of the occupants are
Pinoy.
Curiously, out 200 Filipino households, I was the only one who
carried the campaign placard of Dr Pagtakhan. Asking around why
the rest of our kababayan did not display the placard of Dr Pagtakhan,
the uniform reply I got was, "Paano kung matalo? 'Di, nakakahiya!".
Fortunately for me, Dr Pagtakhan, a U.P. graduate of Medicine won.
Eventually Dr Pagtakhan served as Parliamentary Secretary to the
Prime Minister of Canada.
When parliamentary elections were called in the subsequent years,
Pinoys in Winnipeg found their identify and pride that they are Pinoy.
Practically, all Canadian-Filipinos eligible to vote, turned out and
cast their support to Dr Pagtakhan. The compound where I stayed,
were littered with campaign placards of Dr Pagtakhan. For 18 years,
it appeared that Dr Pagtakhan is invincible as Member of the
Parliament.
Dr Pagtakhan gained the moniker of invincibility because the Pinoys
in Winnipeg united behind him.
The other occasion where Pinoys in Winnipeg came together and
unite was the event when opinion leaders in the Filipino Community
denounced the discriminatory act committed by Canada's largest
grocery department store----Supervalu.
The Fiipino Journal, and Good Morning Philippines (radio program)
brought the case to the Filipino Community about the mag lola
who were illegally frisked after paying their purchases on sheer
suspicion that the apo stole a candy bar. The lola looks like a
Native person. Akala ng store clerk, si lola ay Native.
Citywide boycott was launched. The store suffered loses of $50K
a day, since the other members of the migrant community joined us.
Those who migrated from Vietnam, India, and Pakistan sympathized
with us.
A year later, the headquarters of Supervalu sought reconciliation
with the Filipino Community.
I am in privy to the above described situation because I was an
active participant and planner in carrying out those moves.
Yes, Pinoys, have the ability to unite kung gustohin nilang magka
isa.
To unite for the betterment of the birthland, it must be willed.
Bob
BOB GABUNA 4 Sept 09
I AM MORE inclined to believe that the deterioration of
the country would draw well meaning Filipinos to unite
for better Philippines.
To build a better house, the dilapidated building must
be destroyed.
I observed, when we planted stalks of cassava, in order
for new leaves to grow, the old leaves must die.
In the spiritual realm, the old self must die, and be born
again to turn a new life.
With this view in mind, I don't spend sleepless nights
if the country is getting convoluted how the governors
governed the Filipino people.
From the finish line where I am observing, the nation
will rise after undergoing revolution---revolution of the
mind, revolution of core values, revolution of vision.
Uswag Pilipinas...
Bob
the country would draw well meaning Filipinos to unite
for better Philippines.
To build a better house, the dilapidated building must
be destroyed.
I observed, when we planted stalks of cassava, in order
for new leaves to grow, the old leaves must die.
In the spiritual realm, the old self must die, and be born
again to turn a new life.
With this view in mind, I don't spend sleepless nights
if the country is getting convoluted how the governors
governed the Filipino people.
From the finish line where I am observing, the nation
will rise after undergoing revolution---revolution of the
mind, revolution of core values, revolution of vision.
Uswag Pilipinas...
Bob
TUMBAGANG ISDA , 1 Sept 2009
Of course when attempting to unite a group or groups of people the call should be “Let us unite” and not how. Do not ask questions but call for it to happen. But let us see where this one goes.
>>>
Unite on what? On a common analysis of the problems? On the solutions to the problems to which everyone will agree and unite with? On the principles that will guide the actions of people? It is a grand undertaking but of course it can be done.
Mon
>>>
Unite on what? On a common analysis of the problems? On the solutions to the problems to which everyone will agree and unite with? On the principles that will guide the actions of people? It is a grand undertaking but of course it can be done.
Mon
MARCELO TECSON, 1 Sept 2009
For Leaders/Members of OFW Organizations
and Others Who Care for Suffering Filipinos:
When the subject HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS was offered as topic for discussion, the implied objective is that it is a SOLUTION to an existing PROBLEM (or problems), otherwise why waste time and thoughts on it.
If so, my APPEAL then to LEADERS and MEMBERS of OFW organizations is--why not directly attack the PROBLEM intended to be solved? (In other words, WHAT IS THE BEST SOLUTION to CORRUPTION, if it is the problem to be solved, or inefficiency in government; lack of classrooms, hospitals, roads and bridges; maltreatment of OFWs abroad, etc.? How will UNITY solve the problem? Can't the problem be solved without UNITY, which is so hard if not impossible to attain because of our major cultural, social, political, geographical, economic, educational, and religious differences?)
Moreover, why talk just of the particular problem intended to be solved? Why not look at ALL major LOCAL and NATIONAL PROBLEMS, prioritize them according to urgency and severity of adverse impact to the people, then start with the emerging first problem that have to be dealt with within the capability of existing OFW organizations? This is the general approach--which involves determining the BEST USE OF OUR TIME right now.
In pursuing the general approach, the following steps may be helpful:
1. Itemize and define all major LOCAL and NATIONAL PROBLEMS and, very important, determine the ROOTS or CAUSES of the problems. (Of course, specialized OFW organizations can limit the listing of problems to those that affect them, their loved ones, and their immediate community directly or indirectly.) If the roots of the problem are not identified, the solution may uselessly address the symptom of the problem but not the problem itself.
2. Classify the problems as to local and national. Solving national problems will generally benefit more Filipinos--this point should be considered in the prioritization of projects.
3. Very, very important: Classify the problems as to:
First, those that need huge government budget and/or substantial donations for their solution (like lack of enough classrooms, irrigation facilities, roads and bridges, working capital for livelihood projects, etc.), and,
Second, those that do not need huge budget, just warm bodies who will volunteer for the cause, submit petitions to, and follow up with government offices concerned their submitted petitions on problems affecting many Filipinos, such as on the need for transparency and proper utilization of OWWA funds; needed remedial measures for non-payment or underpayment of OFW salaries, inhuman treatments of OFW's abroad, and so on.
Simultaneous with solicitation for operating funds, the first step should be to gather committed capable members/volunteers who will devote time and effort for the cause of OFW's and other marginalized Filipinos. In my observation, OFW organizations have not progressed as much because they do not have a WORKING GROUP HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES who can personally meet here regularly, formulate plans and programs, then oversee and monitor the implementation of the plans and programs. If a particular OFW organization can afford it, it should hire here at least one salaried employee who can work full or part time in the handling of coordination and paper work for the organization's projects/activities in the Philippines. The employee can serve as local secretariat or coordinator of the organization in the formulation and implementation of its plans and programs, with postal/email addresses and telephone number, and to whom any questions/comments/suggestions can be directed, for referral to appropriate OFW officials and/or members.
There maybe an excuse for inability to undertake projects that need large financing, but there is not much excuse for inability to pursue missions that do not need much money or substantial funding--just small out-of-pocket expenses--like working for the cause of OFW's.
For example, to address the rampant problem of non-payment or underpayment of salaries of OFW's, the Philippine government should be urged to enter into agreements with HOST COUNTRIES to the effect that the foreign employers should deposit the salaries of OFWs in specified BANKS. This way, it will be quite easy for Philippine embassy personnel to verify and prove non-payment/underpayment of OFW salaries once they receive complaints from OFWs. It will also be easy to pin down and penalize erring foreign employers.
In the case of foreign employers' inhuman treatments of OFWs, like overly long working hours and physical abuse, such maltreatments should be considered CRIMES in the HOST COUNTRIES.
For the Philippine government to have clout in dealing with HOST COUNTRIES, it should work in concert with other LABOR EXPORTING COUNTRIES, invoke the name of ASEAN if possible, and, together with other aggrieved countries, present a united stand to HOST COUNTRIES.
While at the start, tackling problems of national application should be prioritized, as sound management practice, THINGS SHOULD BE DONE IN PARALLEL, NOT IN SERIES, depending on the availability of manpower and other resources.
Thus, local projects that I encountered in past emails, even if of limited area of application, are very important. These can be viewed as PILOT PROJECTS which can be eventually replicated in other applicable areas. What's more, succeeding projects need not suffer from the growing pains of the pilot projects because these can impart valuable LESSONS for the success of future projects in other regions. In short, these local projects form part of the big (macro) picture, or of the general scheme of things that OFW organizations have to visualize.
If the foregoing points merit consideration, OFW organizations have to systematize their approach to problems, define and set their priorities, then do first things first. I am sure OFW organizations are in some ways already doing this, but taking a critical second look at what they are doing may still yield them some good.
Mar
and Others Who Care for Suffering Filipinos:
When the subject HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS was offered as topic for discussion, the implied objective is that it is a SOLUTION to an existing PROBLEM (or problems), otherwise why waste time and thoughts on it.
If so, my APPEAL then to LEADERS and MEMBERS of OFW organizations is--why not directly attack the PROBLEM intended to be solved? (In other words, WHAT IS THE BEST SOLUTION to CORRUPTION, if it is the problem to be solved, or inefficiency in government; lack of classrooms, hospitals, roads and bridges; maltreatment of OFWs abroad, etc.? How will UNITY solve the problem? Can't the problem be solved without UNITY, which is so hard if not impossible to attain because of our major cultural, social, political, geographical, economic, educational, and religious differences?)
Moreover, why talk just of the particular problem intended to be solved? Why not look at ALL major LOCAL and NATIONAL PROBLEMS, prioritize them according to urgency and severity of adverse impact to the people, then start with the emerging first problem that have to be dealt with within the capability of existing OFW organizations? This is the general approach--which involves determining the BEST USE OF OUR TIME right now.
In pursuing the general approach, the following steps may be helpful:
1. Itemize and define all major LOCAL and NATIONAL PROBLEMS and, very important, determine the ROOTS or CAUSES of the problems. (Of course, specialized OFW organizations can limit the listing of problems to those that affect them, their loved ones, and their immediate community directly or indirectly.) If the roots of the problem are not identified, the solution may uselessly address the symptom of the problem but not the problem itself.
2. Classify the problems as to local and national. Solving national problems will generally benefit more Filipinos--this point should be considered in the prioritization of projects.
3. Very, very important: Classify the problems as to:
First, those that need huge government budget and/or substantial donations for their solution (like lack of enough classrooms, irrigation facilities, roads and bridges, working capital for livelihood projects, etc.), and,
Second, those that do not need huge budget, just warm bodies who will volunteer for the cause, submit petitions to, and follow up with government offices concerned their submitted petitions on problems affecting many Filipinos, such as on the need for transparency and proper utilization of OWWA funds; needed remedial measures for non-payment or underpayment of OFW salaries, inhuman treatments of OFW's abroad, and so on.
Simultaneous with solicitation for operating funds, the first step should be to gather committed capable members/volunteers who will devote time and effort for the cause of OFW's and other marginalized Filipinos. In my observation, OFW organizations have not progressed as much because they do not have a WORKING GROUP HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES who can personally meet here regularly, formulate plans and programs, then oversee and monitor the implementation of the plans and programs. If a particular OFW organization can afford it, it should hire here at least one salaried employee who can work full or part time in the handling of coordination and paper work for the organization's projects/activities in the Philippines. The employee can serve as local secretariat or coordinator of the organization in the formulation and implementation of its plans and programs, with postal/email addresses and telephone number, and to whom any questions/comments/suggestions can be directed, for referral to appropriate OFW officials and/or members.
There maybe an excuse for inability to undertake projects that need large financing, but there is not much excuse for inability to pursue missions that do not need much money or substantial funding--just small out-of-pocket expenses--like working for the cause of OFW's.
For example, to address the rampant problem of non-payment or underpayment of salaries of OFW's, the Philippine government should be urged to enter into agreements with HOST COUNTRIES to the effect that the foreign employers should deposit the salaries of OFWs in specified BANKS. This way, it will be quite easy for Philippine embassy personnel to verify and prove non-payment/underpayment of OFW salaries once they receive complaints from OFWs. It will also be easy to pin down and penalize erring foreign employers.
In the case of foreign employers' inhuman treatments of OFWs, like overly long working hours and physical abuse, such maltreatments should be considered CRIMES in the HOST COUNTRIES.
For the Philippine government to have clout in dealing with HOST COUNTRIES, it should work in concert with other LABOR EXPORTING COUNTRIES, invoke the name of ASEAN if possible, and, together with other aggrieved countries, present a united stand to HOST COUNTRIES.
While at the start, tackling problems of national application should be prioritized, as sound management practice, THINGS SHOULD BE DONE IN PARALLEL, NOT IN SERIES, depending on the availability of manpower and other resources.
Thus, local projects that I encountered in past emails, even if of limited area of application, are very important. These can be viewed as PILOT PROJECTS which can be eventually replicated in other applicable areas. What's more, succeeding projects need not suffer from the growing pains of the pilot projects because these can impart valuable LESSONS for the success of future projects in other regions. In short, these local projects form part of the big (macro) picture, or of the general scheme of things that OFW organizations have to visualize.
If the foregoing points merit consideration, OFW organizations have to systematize their approach to problems, define and set their priorities, then do first things first. I am sure OFW organizations are in some ways already doing this, but taking a critical second look at what they are doing may still yield them some good.
Mar
BERT PAGARIGAN, 4 Sept 2009
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 1:19 AM, wrote:
Doc, the patient is clinically dead. Let us shock it back to life: declare "Martial Law"! Bilango all the corruptors.
Confiscate all their assets and use these to fund infrastractures, build roads, give capitals to farmers to rehabilitate their farms, award rebels for them to start a new life and give them lands in Mindanao to call their own to farm and be productive, provide education to their children etc. etc.
And let us have a benevolent dictatorship fitting our Pilipino mentality:-))) bert
Doc, the patient is clinically dead. Let us shock it back to life: declare "Martial Law"! Bilango all the corruptors.
Confiscate all their assets and use these to fund infrastractures, build roads, give capitals to farmers to rehabilitate their farms, award rebels for them to start a new life and give them lands in Mindanao to call their own to farm and be productive, provide education to their children etc. etc.
And let us have a benevolent dictatorship fitting our Pilipino mentality:-))) bert
DR. ANACLETO MENDEZ
TEAMWORK is UNITY. My formula for TEAMWORK (TW) is"
TW=3Cs+3Ps
where C represents Communication, Coordination and Cooperation
P represents Professionalism, Production and Perfection
TW=3Cs+3Ps
where C represents Communication, Coordination and Cooperation
P represents Professionalism, Production and Perfection
CARLOS CARAMANZANA 3 Sept 2009
From: Carlos Caramanzana
Subject: Re: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:16 AM
Dr. Nelson and All,
Without interest only a handful will participate in the foregoing discussion of unity but with a small contribution to a bigger profitable project, many who are invited will join. As my take for the solution as suggested, please read the embedded answers:
Cheers,
Carlos
Subject: Re: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:16 AM
Dr. Nelson and All,
Without interest only a handful will participate in the foregoing discussion of unity but with a small contribution to a bigger profitable project, many who are invited will join. As my take for the solution as suggested, please read the embedded answers:
Cheers,
Carlos
NELSON A. PAGUYO, 3 Sept 2009
From: NELSON A PAGUYO
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 3:05:13 AM
Subject: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
Hi All.
I am inviting everyone to participate if you can. This is purely VOLUNTARY.
TOPIC: Your Solution to our Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos.
GOAL: To survey the general thinking of individuals in this forum how they propose to resolve our Fragmented Society and to share each recommended solution in a format that is coherent and easily understandable.
PURPOSE: To give us all an understanding on how and what we are thinking and hopeful be enlightened with our differences as individuals and with the root causes why our society is so fragmented.
RULES:
1. Submit your solution/thesis. Defend it by supporting your solution/thesis with historical events, personal experiences or any means to convince the other parties why your solution is sound, appropriate and reasonable.
Unless our country is being invaded and there is an actual revolution peoples unite to fight the invader as what happened during the Spanish/American/ Japanese war. The interest here is our honor and conviction. If there is no treat to life, the formula that I know is a lucrative business. With 100 to 1000 dollars investment with thousand participant we can already build hotel. With another thousand we can build shopping mall. Once these two establishment are producing revenue, we can build school and colleges. Now the interest here is the respective capital/investment. Some people here will put up to 5,000 or even 10,000-, but limit should be made to avoid controlling interest by a few for this a a public corporation. I believe that this kind of solution is sound. All we need here is trust and confidence and the right people to handle it.
The Filipino people that we can easily reach per above ideas without expensive stamps are the more than 10 million Filipino emails from the more than 55,000 yahoo groups plus members of their respective families.
2. Submitted solution/thesis IS NOT SUBJECTED TO DISCUSSION at this time; perhaps later if there are interests in pursuing certain solution/thesis submitted.
3. Use only the ENGLISH language for your submission.
Let’s apply a doctor’s methodology in treating a disease: get a good history of the symptoms, examine the patient, make a diagnosis then treat the patient. Our patient is the Philippine. Diagnosis is fragmented society. Symptom is our Filipino Mindset as illustrated in the previous postings of symptom 1–3. Finding is deteriorating social conditions i.e. poverty, poor governance, etc.
My solution to our fragmented society which has been posted is to Understand the Filipino Mindset.
Thanks for your participation. I hope this will give us an idea who we are as a people.
Nelson
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 3:05:13 AM
Subject: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
Hi All.
I am inviting everyone to participate if you can. This is purely VOLUNTARY.
TOPIC: Your Solution to our Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos.
GOAL: To survey the general thinking of individuals in this forum how they propose to resolve our Fragmented Society and to share each recommended solution in a format that is coherent and easily understandable.
PURPOSE: To give us all an understanding on how and what we are thinking and hopeful be enlightened with our differences as individuals and with the root causes why our society is so fragmented.
RULES:
1. Submit your solution/thesis. Defend it by supporting your solution/thesis with historical events, personal experiences or any means to convince the other parties why your solution is sound, appropriate and reasonable.
Unless our country is being invaded and there is an actual revolution peoples unite to fight the invader as what happened during the Spanish/American/ Japanese war. The interest here is our honor and conviction. If there is no treat to life, the formula that I know is a lucrative business. With 100 to 1000 dollars investment with thousand participant we can already build hotel. With another thousand we can build shopping mall. Once these two establishment are producing revenue, we can build school and colleges. Now the interest here is the respective capital/investment. Some people here will put up to 5,000 or even 10,000-, but limit should be made to avoid controlling interest by a few for this a a public corporation. I believe that this kind of solution is sound. All we need here is trust and confidence and the right people to handle it.
The Filipino people that we can easily reach per above ideas without expensive stamps are the more than 10 million Filipino emails from the more than 55,000 yahoo groups plus members of their respective families.
2. Submitted solution/thesis IS NOT SUBJECTED TO DISCUSSION at this time; perhaps later if there are interests in pursuing certain solution/thesis submitted.
3. Use only the ENGLISH language for your submission.
Let’s apply a doctor’s methodology in treating a disease: get a good history of the symptoms, examine the patient, make a diagnosis then treat the patient. Our patient is the Philippine. Diagnosis is fragmented society. Symptom is our Filipino Mindset as illustrated in the previous postings of symptom 1–3. Finding is deteriorating social conditions i.e. poverty, poor governance, etc.
My solution to our fragmented society which has been posted is to Understand the Filipino Mindset.
Thanks for your participation. I hope this will give us an idea who we are as a people.
Nelson
CARLOS CARAMANZANA 3 Sept 2009
From: Carlos Caramanzana
Subject: Re: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:16 AM
Dr. Nelson and All,
Without interest only a handful will participate in the foregoing discussion of unity but with a small contribution to a bigger profitable project, many who are invited will join. As my take for the solution as suggested, please read the embedded answers:
Cheers,
Carlos
Subject: Re: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:16 AM
Dr. Nelson and All,
Without interest only a handful will participate in the foregoing discussion of unity but with a small contribution to a bigger profitable project, many who are invited will join. As my take for the solution as suggested, please read the embedded answers:
Cheers,
Carlos
JM NEPOMUCENO, 4 Sept. 09
PJRM - JMCN - SGN to ofcouncil, cepol, Pinoy, Ang, TETP, ofi-bank, team-rp, Team
show details 1:03 AM (50 minutes ago)
Re:
Please, don't blame the victims. Blame those at the top.
The PRIMARY responsibility rests on the FILIPINO VOTERS, the majority of whom placed those people at the top.
This is a MAJOR CHANGE in ATTITUDE required of US, FILIPINO CITIZENS.
WE must accept COLLECTIVE ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY for ALL THE MESS that WE have been ALLOWING to happen over and over again since JANUARY 2001.
The SILENT MAJORITY who do NOT get out into the streets to EXPRESS their COLLECTIVE SOVEREIGN WILL is PRIMARILY accountable and responsible BY DEFAULT.
JM
==
show details 1:03 AM (50 minutes ago)
Re:
Please, don't blame the victims. Blame those at the top.
The PRIMARY responsibility rests on the FILIPINO VOTERS, the majority of whom placed those people at the top.
This is a MAJOR CHANGE in ATTITUDE required of US, FILIPINO CITIZENS.
WE must accept COLLECTIVE ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY for ALL THE MESS that WE have been ALLOWING to happen over and over again since JANUARY 2001.
The SILENT MAJORITY who do NOT get out into the streets to EXPRESS their COLLECTIVE SOVEREIGN WILL is PRIMARILY accountable and responsible BY DEFAULT.
JM
==
EMMA OROZCO, 3 Sept 2009
===============================================================
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:08 AM, wilhelmina orozco wrote:
NELSON WROTE: Let’s apply a doctor’s methodology in treating a disease: get a good history of the symptoms, examine the patient, make a diagnosis then treat the patient. Our patient is the Philippine. Diagnosis is fragmented society. Symptom is our Filipino Mindset as illustrated in the previous postings of symptom 1–3. Finding is deteriorating social conditions i.e. poverty, poor governance, etc...
Let's get our categories straight Folks. The patient is the whole bureaucracy that cannot seem to provide the necessary solutions to problems despite the monstrous financial budget it gets from the Filipino people.
Now who is sick? the government bureaucy and all the officials who people it are the ones who need diagnosis -- not Mang Juan and Aling Pilar who work themselves to the bones just to feed their families.
A vegetable selling couple were pushing their cart at Commonwealth Av when the man was sideswiped by a car which did not even stop to pick him up and bring him to the hospital .
Along Edsa by the corner of Edsa, from the side of the POEA, the commuters have to climb up the steel bridget to get to the island about three meters away just to be able to get a ride to Baclaran. Imagine this: a crippled individual, or a pregnant woman, an elderly couple trying to negotiate the one-story high bridge just to get to a bus stop which we could easily cross to before.
At North EDSA again, by the corner of that street going to project 6, the passageway is less than one meter, and is barred with railings about 8 feet high on both sides so that the commuters would be like chickens being cooped up and should an off his rocker should suddenly lose his composure, then the rest won't have any place to run to except to go up the bridge.
Along EDSa are those pink toilets which smell of urea even if you are inside a non-airconditioned bus passing by them. Then the urine flows down the sidewalks making them toxic.
Who put up all these? No one but B Fernando whose radio advertisement depicts two women talking about a certain BF and turns out to be the same man. So he has two girlfriends. Very funny for Marides Fernando, the Marikina mayor, and his real nwife.
Now tell me who is sick Folks?
We pay our taxes. The evat of our electricity runs up to 300 + a month, and the bills are going up and up. A year ago our LPG used to be only 300+ but now runs up to 500+. Whose fault is this but the legislators who cannot make up their minds whether to scuttle the deregulation law or not.
Let us not add more problems to the Filipino people. And never lower their self-esteem saying that they are at fault. We are not at fault, Folks. They are the ones at fault because we are paying them to make our lives comfortable and prosperous. What do we get? Fine dining tourists in New York at our expense.
Please, don't blame the victims. Blame those at the top.
Emma
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:08 AM, wilhelmina orozco
NELSON WROTE: Let’s apply a doctor’s methodology in treating a disease: get a good history of the symptoms, examine the patient, make a diagnosis then treat the patient. Our patient is the Philippine. Diagnosis is fragmented society. Symptom is our Filipino Mindset as illustrated in the previous postings of symptom 1–3. Finding is deteriorating social conditions i.e. poverty, poor governance, etc...
Let's get our categories straight Folks. The patient is the whole bureaucracy that cannot seem to provide the necessary solutions to problems despite the monstrous financial budget it gets from the Filipino people.
Now who is sick? the government bureaucy and all the officials who people it are the ones who need diagnosis -- not Mang Juan and Aling Pilar who work themselves to the bones just to feed their families.
A vegetable selling couple were pushing their cart at Commonwealth Av when the man was sideswiped by a car which did not even stop to pick him up and bring him to the hospital .
Along Edsa by the corner of Edsa, from the side of the POEA, the commuters have to climb up the steel bridget to get to the island about three meters away just to be able to get a ride to Baclaran. Imagine this: a crippled individual, or a pregnant woman, an elderly couple trying to negotiate the one-story high bridge just to get to a bus stop which we could easily cross to before.
At North EDSA again, by the corner of that street going to project 6, the passageway is less than one meter, and is barred with railings about 8 feet high on both sides so that the commuters would be like chickens being cooped up and should an off his rocker should suddenly lose his composure, then the rest won't have any place to run to except to go up the bridge.
Along EDSa are those pink toilets which smell of urea even if you are inside a non-airconditioned bus passing by them. Then the urine flows down the sidewalks making them toxic.
Who put up all these? No one but B Fernando whose radio advertisement depicts two women talking about a certain BF and turns out to be the same man. So he has two girlfriends. Very funny for Marides Fernando, the Marikina mayor, and his real nwife.
Now tell me who is sick Folks?
We pay our taxes. The evat of our electricity runs up to 300 + a month, and the bills are going up and up. A year ago our LPG used to be only 300+ but now runs up to 500+. Whose fault is this but the legislators who cannot make up their minds whether to scuttle the deregulation law or not.
Let us not add more problems to the Filipino people. And never lower their self-esteem saying that they are at fault. We are not at fault, Folks. They are the ones at fault because we are paying them to make our lives comfortable and prosperous. What do we get? Fine dining tourists in New York at our expense.
Please, don't blame the victims. Blame those at the top.
Emma
TUMBAGANG ISDA , 3 Sept 2009
tumbaga@dslextreme.com>
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 3:17:56 PM
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
Now,
Let us show our UNITY in one protest, that we do not do one thing that we agree not to do on ONE DAY and one day only! Let me see if we can do this right, WE NEED ONE DAY TO SHOW THAT WE ARE UNITED, that we Filipinos will unite, you decide what day it is, you decide how it is going to be done, you decide everything!
Now,
Let us complete this show of UNITY by doing one thing in UNISON, just one thing, let this discussion move to THAT ONE THING!!
YOU DECIDE WHAT THAT ONE THING IS!
Thank you!
Signed,
Copper, the tumbaga
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 3:17:56 PM
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
Now,
Let us show our UNITY in one protest, that we do not do one thing that we agree not to do on ONE DAY and one day only! Let me see if we can do this right, WE NEED ONE DAY TO SHOW THAT WE ARE UNITED, that we Filipinos will unite, you decide what day it is, you decide how it is going to be done, you decide everything!
Now,
Let us complete this show of UNITY by doing one thing in UNISON, just one thing, let this discussion move to THAT ONE THING!!
YOU DECIDE WHAT THAT ONE THING IS!
Thank you!
Signed,
Copper, the tumbaga
NELSON A. PAGUYO, 3 Sept 2009
From: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of NELSON A PAGUYO
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:05 AM
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
Hi All.
I am inviting everyone to participate if you can. This is purely VOLUNTARY.
TOPIC: Your Solution to our Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos.
GOAL: To survey the general thinking of individuals in this forum how they propose to resolve our Fragmented Society and to share each recommended solution in a format that is coherent and easily understandable.
PURPOSE: To give us all an understanding on how and what we are thinking and hopeful be enlightened with our differences as individuals and with the root causes why our society is so fragmented.
RULES:
1. Submit your solution/thesis. Defend it by supporting your solution/thesis with historical events, personal experiences or any means to convince the other parties why your solution is sound, appropriate and reasonable.
2. Submitted solution/thesis IS NOT SUBJECTED TO DISCUSSION at this time; perhaps later if there are interests in pursuing certain solution/thesis submitted.
3. Use only the ENGLISH language for your submission.
Let’s apply a doctor’s methodology in treating a disease: get a good history of the symptoms, examine the patient, make a diagnosis then treat the patient. Our patient is the Philippine. Diagnosis is fragmented society. Symptom is our Filipino Mindset as illustrated in the previous postings of symptom 1–3. Finding is deteriorating social conditions i.e. poverty, poor governance, etc.
My solution to our fragmented society which has been posted is to Understand the Filipino Mindset.
Thanks for your participation. I hope this will give us an idea who we are as a people.
Nelson
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:05 AM
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: [ofcouncil] Your Solution to a Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos
Hi All.
I am inviting everyone to participate if you can. This is purely VOLUNTARY.
TOPIC: Your Solution to our Fragmented Society/Uniting the Filipinos.
GOAL: To survey the general thinking of individuals in this forum how they propose to resolve our Fragmented Society and to share each recommended solution in a format that is coherent and easily understandable.
PURPOSE: To give us all an understanding on how and what we are thinking and hopeful be enlightened with our differences as individuals and with the root causes why our society is so fragmented.
RULES:
1. Submit your solution/thesis. Defend it by supporting your solution/thesis with historical events, personal experiences or any means to convince the other parties why your solution is sound, appropriate and reasonable.
2. Submitted solution/thesis IS NOT SUBJECTED TO DISCUSSION at this time; perhaps later if there are interests in pursuing certain solution/thesis submitted.
3. Use only the ENGLISH language for your submission.
Let’s apply a doctor’s methodology in treating a disease: get a good history of the symptoms, examine the patient, make a diagnosis then treat the patient. Our patient is the Philippine. Diagnosis is fragmented society. Symptom is our Filipino Mindset as illustrated in the previous postings of symptom 1–3. Finding is deteriorating social conditions i.e. poverty, poor governance, etc.
My solution to our fragmented society which has been posted is to Understand the Filipino Mindset.
Thanks for your participation. I hope this will give us an idea who we are as a people.
Nelson
NELSON A PAGUYO, 1 Sept. 2009
I must have misunderstood the rules. I thought one has to answer the question; support, defend and discuss his/her answer.
If I am not mistaken in my understanding of the rule – is not following the rule a part of our mindset?
To rebut: Mindset is not solely intellectual as defined. It is an attitude, disposition or mood; an intention or inclination. It is to me the entire intellectual, emotional and spiritual mental processes of an individual.
While it is true some of us are not effective verbal communicators there are such things as non–verbal communications such as sign language or body language to give an example. All types of communications play important roles in the development of our mindset including our history, traditions and mores.
Perhaps after we have given everybody a change to answer the question then we can come back to the answers and discuss them farther for clarification.
Nelson
PS: I think you're right Emma this will be a hot topic to talk about.
If I am not mistaken in my understanding of the rule – is not following the rule a part of our mindset?
To rebut: Mindset is not solely intellectual as defined. It is an attitude, disposition or mood; an intention or inclination. It is to me the entire intellectual, emotional and spiritual mental processes of an individual.
While it is true some of us are not effective verbal communicators there are such things as non–verbal communications such as sign language or body language to give an example. All types of communications play important roles in the development of our mindset including our history, traditions and mores.
Perhaps after we have given everybody a change to answer the question then we can come back to the answers and discuss them farther for clarification.
Nelson
PS: I think you're right Emma this will be a hot topic to talk about.
EMMA OROZCO, 1 Sept 2009
Without knowing the mindset, is it not possible t unite with one another on the basis of feelings? Some people may not know how to talk, or to discuss yet they can get along with each other. In other words, to know the mindset is too philosophical for me, too rational. Don't you think there are people whose sense antennae are so strong that they can unite with a person or group of persons readily feeling his or her way through?
I think this is what unites us as the Filipino people. Although not many of us can philosophize or hardly dissect the situations we are in, we readily come to be friends with so many people. In fact, even through the eyes, we readily are able to communicate.
The mindset of the Filipino people actually is attuned to others. Most of the time, they or we do not really focus on what we want or what we want the world to be, and so what happens is that we just go through the process of living, or the changes caused by others.
Yet, it is also possible that we readily come to an important decision when we realize that some people are being oppressed or napagkakaisahan. We come to the rescue because we feel compelled by instinct, by religion or by political reasons, whatever.
And so what unites the Filipino people I think is the way we feel free and comfortable with each other even without analyzing why we do so.
In fact, I have seen this when I went abroad. Readily, we greet each other, even raise our eyebrows in recognition, "Ay Pinoy!" because we have that instinctual affinity with each other. Tell me what nationality raises their eyebrows in recognition? Only the Filipino.
Any comments, Folks? Wow, this corner looks like it's going to raise a lot of discussions, ha. Very nice feeling I have. Emma
I think this is what unites us as the Filipino people. Although not many of us can philosophize or hardly dissect the situations we are in, we readily come to be friends with so many people. In fact, even through the eyes, we readily are able to communicate.
The mindset of the Filipino people actually is attuned to others. Most of the time, they or we do not really focus on what we want or what we want the world to be, and so what happens is that we just go through the process of living, or the changes caused by others.
Yet, it is also possible that we readily come to an important decision when we realize that some people are being oppressed or napagkakaisahan. We come to the rescue because we feel compelled by instinct, by religion or by political reasons, whatever.
And so what unites the Filipino people I think is the way we feel free and comfortable with each other even without analyzing why we do so.
In fact, I have seen this when I went abroad. Readily, we greet each other, even raise our eyebrows in recognition, "Ay Pinoy!" because we have that instinctual affinity with each other. Tell me what nationality raises their eyebrows in recognition? Only the Filipino.
Any comments, Folks? Wow, this corner looks like it's going to raise a lot of discussions, ha. Very nice feeling I have. Emma
EMMA OROZCO, 2 Sept 2009
FOLKS, ALL YOUR ANSWERS ARE CORRECT; NO ONE IS WRONG. WE ARE HERE TO DISCUSS THE TOPIC HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINO PEOPLE.
IN FACT WE ARE UNITED IN DISCUSSING THE TOPIC. LET US NOT STOP IT. JUST CONTINUE SEARCHING WHAT CAN REALLY UNITE US --
WILL A PERSON BE THE CATALYST?
AN EVENT, LIKE THE ASSASSINATION OF NINOY?
OR EVEN A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT LIKE THIS REGIME?
WHICH CAN REALLY UNITE US/
LET US CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSIONS IN THE MOST INTELLIGENT WAY -- AND THAT IS PEACEFULLY.
EMMA
IN FACT WE ARE UNITED IN DISCUSSING THE TOPIC. LET US NOT STOP IT. JUST CONTINUE SEARCHING WHAT CAN REALLY UNITE US --
WILL A PERSON BE THE CATALYST?
AN EVENT, LIKE THE ASSASSINATION OF NINOY?
OR EVEN A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT LIKE THIS REGIME?
WHICH CAN REALLY UNITE US/
LET US CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSIONS IN THE MOST INTELLIGENT WAY -- AND THAT IS PEACEFULLY.
EMMA
TUMBAGANG ISDA , 1 Sept 2009
Of course when attempting to unite a group or groups of people the call should be “Let us unite” and not how. Do not ask questions but call for it to happen. But let us see where this one goes.
>>>
Unite on what? On a common analysis of the problems? On the solutions to the problems to which everyone will agree and unite with? On the principles that will guide the actions of people? It is a grand undertaking but of course it can be done.
Mon
>>>
Unite on what? On a common analysis of the problems? On the solutions to the problems to which everyone will agree and unite with? On the principles that will guide the actions of people? It is a grand undertaking but of course it can be done.
Mon
MARCELO TECSON, 1 Sept 2009
For Leaders/Members of OFW Organizations
and Others Who Care for Suffering Filipinos:
When the subject HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS was offered as topic for discussion, the implied objective is that it is a SOLUTION to an existing PROBLEM (or problems), otherwise why waste time and thoughts on it.
If so, my APPEAL then to LEADERS and MEMBERS of OFW organizations is--why not directly attack the PROBLEM intended to be solved? (In other words, WHAT IS THE BEST SOLUTION to CORRUPTION, if it is the problem to be solved, or inefficiency in government; lack of classrooms, hospitals, roads and bridges; maltreatment of OFWs abroad, etc.? How will UNITY solve the problem? Can't the problem be solved without UNITY, which is so hard if not impossible to attain because of our major cultural, social, political, geographical, economic, educational, and religious differences?)
Moreover, why talk just of the particular problem intended to be solved? Why not look at ALL major LOCAL and NATIONAL PROBLEMS, prioritize them according to urgency and severity of adverse impact to the people, then start with the emerging first problem that have to be dealt with within the capability of existing OFW organizations? This is the general approach--which involves determining the BEST USE OF OUR TIME right now.
In pursuing the general approach, the following steps may be helpful:
1. Itemize and define all major LOCAL and NATIONAL PROBLEMS and, very important, determine the ROOTS or CAUSES of the problems. (Of course, specialized OFW organizations can limit the listing of problems to those that affect them, their loved ones, and their immediate community directly or indirectly.) If the roots of the problem are not identified, the solution may uselessly address the symptom of the problem but not the problem itself.
2. Classify the problems as to local and national. Solving national problems will generally benefit more Filipinos--this point should be considered in the prioritization of projects.
3. Very, very important: Classify the problems as to:
First, those that need huge government budget and/or substantial donations for their solution (like lack of enough classrooms, irrigation facilities, roads and bridges, working capital for livelihood projects, etc.), and,
Second, those that do not need huge budget, just warm bodies who will volunteer for the cause, submit petitions to, and follow up with government offices concerned their submitted petitions on problems affecting many Filipinos, such as on the need for transparency and proper utilization of OWWA funds; needed remedial measures for non-payment or underpayment of OFW salaries, inhuman treatments of OFW's abroad, and so on.
Simultaneous with solicitation for operating funds, the first step should be to gather committed capable members/volunteers who will devote time and effort for the cause of OFW's and other marginalized Filipinos. In my observation, OFW organizations have not progressed as much because they do not have a WORKING GROUP HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES who can personally meet here regularly, formulate plans and programs, then oversee and monitor the implementation of the plans and programs. If a particular OFW organization can afford it, it should hire here at least one salaried employee who can work full or part time in the handling of coordination and paper work for the organization's projects/activities in the Philippines. The employee can serve as local secretariat or coordinator of the organization in the formulation and implementation of its plans and programs, with postal/email addresses and telephone number, and to whom any questions/comments/suggestions can be directed, for referral to appropriate OFW officials and/or members.
There maybe an excuse for inability to undertake projects that need large financing, but there is not much excuse for inability to pursue missions that do not need much money or substantial funding--just small out-of-pocket expenses--like working for the cause of OFW's.
For example, to address the rampant problem of non-payment or underpayment of salaries of OFW's, the Philippine government should be urged to enter into agreements with HOST COUNTRIES to the effect that the foreign employers should deposit the salaries of OFWs in specified BANKS. This way, it will be quite easy for Philippine embassy personnel to verify and prove non-payment/underpayment of OFW salaries once they receive complaints from OFWs. It will also be easy to pin down and penalize erring foreign employers.
In the case of foreign employers' inhuman treatments of OFWs, like overly long working hours and physical abuse, such maltreatments should be considered CRIMES in the HOST COUNTRIES.
For the Philippine government to have clout in dealing with HOST COUNTRIES, it should work in concert with other LABOR EXPORTING COUNTRIES, invoke the name of ASEAN if possible, and, together with other aggrieved countries, present a united stand to HOST COUNTRIES.
While at the start, tackling problems of national application should be prioritized, as sound management practice, THINGS SHOULD BE DONE IN PARALLEL, NOT IN SERIES, depending on the availability of manpower and other resources.
Thus, local projects that I encountered in past emails, even if of limited area of application, are very important. These can be viewed as PILOT PROJECTS which can be eventually replicated in other applicable areas. What's more, succeeding projects need not suffer from the growing pains of the pilot projects because these can impart valuable LESSONS for the success of future projects in other regions. In short, these local projects form part of the big (macro) picture, or of the general scheme of things that OFW organizations have to visualize.
If the foregoing points merit consideration, OFW organizations have to systematize their approach to problems, define and set their priorities, then do first things first. I am sure OFW organizations are in some ways already doing this, but taking a critical second look at what they are doing may still yield them some good.
Mar
and Others Who Care for Suffering Filipinos:
When the subject HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS was offered as topic for discussion, the implied objective is that it is a SOLUTION to an existing PROBLEM (or problems), otherwise why waste time and thoughts on it.
If so, my APPEAL then to LEADERS and MEMBERS of OFW organizations is--why not directly attack the PROBLEM intended to be solved? (In other words, WHAT IS THE BEST SOLUTION to CORRUPTION, if it is the problem to be solved, or inefficiency in government; lack of classrooms, hospitals, roads and bridges; maltreatment of OFWs abroad, etc.? How will UNITY solve the problem? Can't the problem be solved without UNITY, which is so hard if not impossible to attain because of our major cultural, social, political, geographical, economic, educational, and religious differences?)
Moreover, why talk just of the particular problem intended to be solved? Why not look at ALL major LOCAL and NATIONAL PROBLEMS, prioritize them according to urgency and severity of adverse impact to the people, then start with the emerging first problem that have to be dealt with within the capability of existing OFW organizations? This is the general approach--which involves determining the BEST USE OF OUR TIME right now.
In pursuing the general approach, the following steps may be helpful:
1. Itemize and define all major LOCAL and NATIONAL PROBLEMS and, very important, determine the ROOTS or CAUSES of the problems. (Of course, specialized OFW organizations can limit the listing of problems to those that affect them, their loved ones, and their immediate community directly or indirectly.) If the roots of the problem are not identified, the solution may uselessly address the symptom of the problem but not the problem itself.
2. Classify the problems as to local and national. Solving national problems will generally benefit more Filipinos--this point should be considered in the prioritization of projects.
3. Very, very important: Classify the problems as to:
First, those that need huge government budget and/or substantial donations for their solution (like lack of enough classrooms, irrigation facilities, roads and bridges, working capital for livelihood projects, etc.), and,
Second, those that do not need huge budget, just warm bodies who will volunteer for the cause, submit petitions to, and follow up with government offices concerned their submitted petitions on problems affecting many Filipinos, such as on the need for transparency and proper utilization of OWWA funds; needed remedial measures for non-payment or underpayment of OFW salaries, inhuman treatments of OFW's abroad, and so on.
Simultaneous with solicitation for operating funds, the first step should be to gather committed capable members/volunteers who will devote time and effort for the cause of OFW's and other marginalized Filipinos. In my observation, OFW organizations have not progressed as much because they do not have a WORKING GROUP HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES who can personally meet here regularly, formulate plans and programs, then oversee and monitor the implementation of the plans and programs. If a particular OFW organization can afford it, it should hire here at least one salaried employee who can work full or part time in the handling of coordination and paper work for the organization's projects/activities in the Philippines. The employee can serve as local secretariat or coordinator of the organization in the formulation and implementation of its plans and programs, with postal/email addresses and telephone number, and to whom any questions/comments/suggestions can be directed, for referral to appropriate OFW officials and/or members.
There maybe an excuse for inability to undertake projects that need large financing, but there is not much excuse for inability to pursue missions that do not need much money or substantial funding--just small out-of-pocket expenses--like working for the cause of OFW's.
For example, to address the rampant problem of non-payment or underpayment of salaries of OFW's, the Philippine government should be urged to enter into agreements with HOST COUNTRIES to the effect that the foreign employers should deposit the salaries of OFWs in specified BANKS. This way, it will be quite easy for Philippine embassy personnel to verify and prove non-payment/underpayment of OFW salaries once they receive complaints from OFWs. It will also be easy to pin down and penalize erring foreign employers.
In the case of foreign employers' inhuman treatments of OFWs, like overly long working hours and physical abuse, such maltreatments should be considered CRIMES in the HOST COUNTRIES.
For the Philippine government to have clout in dealing with HOST COUNTRIES, it should work in concert with other LABOR EXPORTING COUNTRIES, invoke the name of ASEAN if possible, and, together with other aggrieved countries, present a united stand to HOST COUNTRIES.
While at the start, tackling problems of national application should be prioritized, as sound management practice, THINGS SHOULD BE DONE IN PARALLEL, NOT IN SERIES, depending on the availability of manpower and other resources.
Thus, local projects that I encountered in past emails, even if of limited area of application, are very important. These can be viewed as PILOT PROJECTS which can be eventually replicated in other applicable areas. What's more, succeeding projects need not suffer from the growing pains of the pilot projects because these can impart valuable LESSONS for the success of future projects in other regions. In short, these local projects form part of the big (macro) picture, or of the general scheme of things that OFW organizations have to visualize.
If the foregoing points merit consideration, OFW organizations have to systematize their approach to problems, define and set their priorities, then do first things first. I am sure OFW organizations are in some ways already doing this, but taking a critical second look at what they are doing may still yield them some good.
Mar
MON RAM 1 Sept 2009
From: Mon Ram
To: CePol@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CebuPolitics] RE: HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS:
This is an Exercise in Futility
To: CePol@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CebuPolitics] RE: HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS:
This is an Exercise in Futility
GENE DE LOYOLA 2 Sept 2009
umbaga pakibasa na lang
Salamat,
Gene
____________________________
PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
Re:
Sa tutuo yun na nga ang itinuturing natin ay BAHAY NA MAAYOS PANGKAISIPAN KUNG GAYON ANG BAHAY NA ITO NA MAAYOS ANG TAHANAN NG KAISPAN NG LIPUNAN NA P[INAPAKINABANGAN BILANG TIRAHAN AT PAGMAMLASAKITAN PARA SA SUSUNOD PANG HENERASYON NA BINABOY NGA NG MGA TAKSIL NA NAGBALAT KAYONG REBOLUSYUNARYO AT PASLANGING ANG PANGULO NG REPUBLIKA
Korek na korek si Ka GENE.
Walang magiging katuturan ang paglingon sa kasaysayan kung hindi IBUBUYANGYANG ang KATOTOHANAN na IBINAON sa LIMOT ng mga AMERIKANO na pumalit sa mga KASTILA sa PAG-ALIPIN sa MGA INDIOS.
Kailangang ILAGLAG sa hanay ng mga TUNAY NA BAYANI itong mapagpanggap at ang UNANG TUTA NG KANO: si EMILIO AGUINALDO at ang kanyang TROPA.
Makikita sa dokumentadong kasaysayan na HINDI nakalagay sa mga textbooks na dapat basahin ng mga Pilipino kung ano ang tunay na mga pinaggagawa ng TRAYDOR na si EMILIO AGUINALDO, ang Numero Unong NAGBENTA ng PILIPINAS sa Estados Unidos..
At SIMULA sa TROPA ni Emilio Aguinaldo ay kailangang halukayin at IBUYANGYANG ang KATRAYDURAN ng MGA TROPA nina MANUEL LUIS QUEZON y MOLINA simula noon pang siya ay AIDE-DE-CAMP ni EMILIO AGUINALDO noong 1896.
At kailangang MABUYANGYANG kung sinu-sino ba talaga ang mga NAGPAPANGGAP na pulitikong pulpol para DAW sa MASA ... subali't makakalkal na MASAma nga talaga ang hangad, dahil sa ANGKAN nga ng mga PULITIKONG PULPOL simula pa noong 1896.
JM
2009/8/16 Gene de Loyola
Pondasyon kaisipan: common vision, mission, goals & objectives, methodologies. All mental constructs.
Magkaisa kamo ng isip sa mga kinakailangan, Gene, katulad ng pagtayo ng bahay. Iba naman dapat ang pagkaisahan sa nagpaplano mag-rerepair ng bahay katulad ng nasabi ni Frank, iyon kung tama ang pagkaintindi ko.
Ogie,
Maraming salamat sa iyong pagbabahagi, malinaw naman na meron ng itinayo ang ating mga ninuno at napakagandang tahanan na kung hindi nabalasubas ay malaking ginhawa ang idinulot sa ating lipunan sa kasalukuyan.
Pag repair ng bahay ayon natumbok mo, yung mga tinuran ni Frank although may binanggit syang repair pero natabunan ng mga rekado ng pulis at mga politiko kaya nga pinuna ko ang kanyang direhe. Sa tutuo yun na nga ang itinuturing natin ay BAHAY NA MAAYOS PANGKAISIPAN KUNG GAYON ANG BAHAY NA ITO NA MAAYOS ANG TAHANAN NG KAISPAN NG LIPUNAN NA P[INAPAKINABANGAN BILANG TIRAHAN AT PAGMAMLASAKITAN PARA SA SUSUNOD PANG HENERASYON NA BINABOY NGA NG MGA TAKSIL NA NAGBALAT KAYONG REBOLUSYUNARYO AT PASLANGING ANG PANGULO NG REPUBLIKA. Malinaw na po ba?
Paglilinaw para hindi na tayo paulit ulit
Ogie & Frank kung ang tumbok nyo ay repair sa pundasyon ayos yun kung repair sa loob at labas ng bahay at hindi ang pundasyon paso na iyon patse patse ang resulta noon ang labas non kurapsyon at pagtakpan ang mabuway na direkyon sa
kapakinabangan ng iilan at mga dayuhan ang kawawang si Juan at Juana ay laging ginagamit na dahilang ng mga panginoong pulpol.
Sa muli,
Gene
________________________
--- On Sun, 8/16/09, pazogie wrote:
From: pazogie
Subject: Re: [CebuPolitics] Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
To: botomo@yahoogroups.com, "cepol", "OFC" , "samntha antonio" , CePol@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 1:02 AM
Pondasyon kaisipan: common vision, mission, goals & objectives, methodologies. All mental constructs.
Magkaisa kamo ng isip sa mga kinakailangan, Gene, katulad ng pagtayo ng bahay. Iba naman dapat ang pagkaisahan sa nagpaplano mag-rerepair ng bahay katulad ng nasabi ni Frank, iyon kung tama ang pagkaintindi ko.
Ang pundasyon pangkaisipan Gene sa pagtatayo ng bayan, isang republika, ay talaga kinakailangan, katulad ng ano mang inaambisyonan na gagawin ng tao. Ang lahat naman na naitayo ng tao ay nagsimula sa isipan.
Anong klaseng pondasyon pangkaisipan ang dapat ipapalago o ikakalat natin sa ating mga kapatid?
Sa akin, magsimula sa tamang postura o attitude. Sa pagtatayo ng ano mang istraktura kailangan ang creativeness, or adopting the attitude of [always] accepting the existence of a better way to fulfill a need or a want of the Filipinos.
What comes next is the attitude of believing the power of collective endeavor vs one or a few. Two heads are better than one; many heads are better than two. But beware, many cooks spoil the broth! How many heads then?
Educated in a democratic institution there is a tendency to answer "a majority," which is not wrong before the public, but history will tell us this - the better way was thought of by one person, accepted and developed by a few that overwhelmed the majority into national conformity. A novel idea is never accepted at the instant it is thought; it has to wait for its time.
For our Philippines what is this better idea that can fulfill our needs; the redeeming idea that awaits its time of fruition? If it is not in existence yet how will we create it? Can we create it by listening only to the trapos [prince], the clergy [priest] and the rich [merchant and entrepreneur]? What of the academe, the poor and labor?
If the better idea is left alone to the prince, priest, and bizman can we harness the awesome collective power of the majority or the people? Hardly, unless we do away with that and go for the alternative idea of dictatorship, which should not be dismissed quickly in our case.
We have been taught and have been enamored by the ideal creation process involving the people because it is so in a democratic country, such as "allegedly" our nation.
If the people is to be involved then we must think of what is the best effective way and in what manner shall it be done? Everybody seems to have the answer for this question - education! which begs the question how?
Would it be education with the stick or without the stick?
Personally, I hope I will not be preempting your way of thinking and choice, is with the stick. Why do I think so?
For me, to educate the [corrupted wild] Filipino is to tame him. To tame means to domesticate. To domesticate is never to persuade a wild animal by words alone but mostly by the stick that hurts. The words are only the action keys [commands] that cannot be followed without the hurting stick.
If it is education by the stick with me then I would be opting for the dictatorial idea - a benevolent dictator.
Our democratic way of education without the stick is never truly democratic but subtly "decreed" by a few for brainwashing our people to remain forever slaves; if by a miracle there is a right one then we need to face the fact that it will be a long long wait, generations, until fruiting season. This officially sanctioned brainwashing education is dictated by no other than the prince, the priest, the bizmen, and the imperialistic interests, that are all of the rich. [Is our present clergy truly for the poor or for the rich? The brainwashed blind is quick to answer - the poor! How pathetic. If he is for the poor, how come Vatican is so rich [most stable country in the world] and run by a benevolent dictator while its third world surrogate countries are poor? Because it caters more "effectively and productively" to the rich, trades with the rich and acts like a dominating rich. Sa aming bayan lang, pagkatapos ng misa, ayon si Padre sakay kaagad sa kotse na may tsuper mag-aalmosal kina Donya Josefa. At pag-uwi may bitbit na puting sobre. Hesusmaryahosep patawarin po, ano ang ikokompetensiya ni Juan diyan? oooooy..buti sana iyong laman ng sobre ay para sa mga alipin. Pero pareho din iyon.]
So, Gene and Frank, in line with pondasyon pangkaisipan ito lang po ang ma-i-i share
ko ngayon. Isang palaisipan.
Ogie
--- On Sat, 8/15/09, Gene de Loyola wrote:
From: Gene de Loyola
Subject: [CebuPolitics] Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com, "cepol", "OFC" , "samntha antonio"
Date: Saturday, 15 August, 2009, 10:28 PM
Frank,
Ang isang bahay na matatag ay malinaw ang mga estraktura bilang tirahan sinisiguro natin ang kaayusan ng lahat mula sa pondasyon haligi dingding hanggang bubong sa kalooban naman kailanag kompleto ang pangangailangan tulad ng palikuran kusina sala, kwarto at kwartong para sa bisita at ang mga pintuan kung merong hagdanan o elevator kailangan nasa ayos ang lahat sa labas naman ng bahay nadoon ang katiykan na may mapagdadausan ng mga kailangan ng komunidad at daluyang ng kanal.
Kung maayos na ang lahat susunod naman ang tubig koryente at ang komonikasyon
ang mga ito ay sa ating kasalukuyang panahon.
Pangunahin pa rin ang basic na structura ng bahay ang kahalagahan ng pundasyon ay hindi maaring balewalain sa lahat ng uri ng structura building, tulay, monumento atbp.
Kung maayos na ang lahat susunod naman ang tubig koryente at ang komonikasyon
ang mga ito ay sa ating kasalukuyang panahon.
Pangunahin pa rin ang basic na structura ng bahay ang kahalagahan ng pundasyon ay hindi maaring balewalain sa lahat ng uri ng structura building, tulay, monumento atbp.
NAPAKAHALGA ANG PONDAYON DAHIL DITO NAKASALALAY ANG LAHAT KALIGTASAN, KAAYUSAN, KAUNLARAN.
GANITO DIN ANG ATING KAISIPAN AT KAMALAYAN SA KASAYSAYAN PUNDASYON PANGKAISIPAN TUNGO SA TUNAY NA KAUNLARABN SA HINAHARAP KUNG MALABO ANG ATING PONDASYONG PANGKAISIPAN SA ATING KASAYSAYAN MALABO RIN ANG TINATAHAK NA KINABUKASAN O HINAHARAP.
Frank hindi mo malalim na naunawa ang ibig kung sabihi malamya ang iyong analisa kaya hindi lubusang natumbok na maliwanag. Ang yung mga analogo ay hindi reyalismo kudi mala lamang at patungo sa abstrakto, gayon pa man maganda pa rin dahil mula sa pagiging abstrakto malilinaw natin ito tungo sa riyalismo.
Sa muli,
Gene
--- On Sat, 8/15/09, frank galarrita wrote:
From: frank galarrita
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 6:26 PM
Ito ang dahila\n kung bakit ang mga Pilipino ay nagkakabahabahagi sa kanilang kaisipan pati ang mga kabataan dahil sa ibat ibang bersyon ng kasaysayan ang mga tunay na bayani ay palabasing bobo, mangmang at ang mga taksil, manloloko at diktador ay gawing matalino at bayani.
Kung ang bahay ay luma ngunit papasa pa sa structural engineer na pwede pang tirahan sa pamamagitan ng renovation ay ganito lang sana ang nararapat sa isipan na hinahalungkat mo Gene. I am also surprised of why an infested short memory of the Filipinos can blame all these to the past. Additionally, the Filipinos can turn their back and never has to turn around but go forward by instinct, lahat ng tao ay gumagawa niyan. What is important now is to see the benefit of having a country and focus only for its development, that is it. The heroes were all dead and now it is our turn as benefeciaries to continue their hope and that is for the good of the people. If we work only 8 to 10 hours a day, a good production must be always be the done. That at the closing of the day must be asked of what have been done for the good of the people. The progress of the nation is always a one-way thinking.
From: Gene de Loyola
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com; cepol; OFC ; samntha antonio ; arturo cruz
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
Frank,
Kaya nagkagulogulo ang ang bansa at nagkawatak watak dahil sa pag-agaw ng Kapangyarihan sa pamamagitan ng kudeta sa Tejeros at pagpaslang kay Pangulong Andres Bonifacio ng Republika ng Katagalugan sa utos ni Aguilado dahil sa pangyayari nagkawatak watak ang mga rebolusyunaryo pinatindi pa ito ng palitan ni Aguinaldo ang pangalan ng Republika ng Katagalugan sa isang dikreto at gawin nyang Republika Filipina.
Ang binhi ng rebolusyon ay naipunla na sa buong kapuluan sa pamamagitan ng mga pinadalang expitionary forces ng Republika ng Katagalugan sa buong Luzon Visaya at Mindanao. Lalo pang nasuklam ang mga rebolusyunaryo ng makipagkasundo si Aguinaldo sa mga kastila sa pamamagitan ng Kasuduan sa Biak na Bato at ibenta ang rebolusyon sa halagang 600 libong piso kapalit ang paghinto ng rebolusyon at pagpapatapon sa Hongkong ng liderato ni Aguinaldo.
Sa galit ng mga rebolusyunaryo lalong nagsiklab ang rebolusyon sa buong kapuluan na ikinagalit din ng mga Kastila kay Aguinaldo dahil hindi nahinto ang himagsikan ang mga kampo ng mga Kastila ay halos nalupig na sa buong kapuluan sa Hongkong ay may natagpuang bagong amo si Aguinaldo ito Ang lumalakas na armadang Americano sa pamumuno ni US Commdore George Dewey. Komander ng US Navy sa Asya na naka base sa Hongkong na kung saan nagdurog sa boung plotilya ng Espanya sa Manila Bay noong Mayo 1, 1898 at pinalubog lahat ng pwersang Naval ng Kastila.
Habang naka blokeo ng Armada ng US ang Manila Bay sinabihin ng US si Aguinaldo na mula sa pagka exile sa Hongkong na bumalik na sa Pilipinas at ipagpatuloy ang paglaban sa mga natitirang Kastila na sa panahong iyon ay patalo na sa mga rebolusyunaryo ang buong Kabisayaan ang malaya na sa mga Kastila at nagtayo na ng kanilang Republika ng mga Bisaya.
Nang magbalik si Aguinaldo palihim sa tulong ng mga Americano sakay ng barko de guerra ng US ay tinipong muli ang mga kapanalig sa Cavite inatake ang ilang maliliit na prisinto ng Kastila at idiniklara ang kalayaan ng Pilipinas sa balkonahe ng kanyang manseon sa Imus.
Masalimuot at maraming kalokohan ang nangyari sa pamumuno ni Aguinaldo sa rebolusyon hanggang pmuling ipapaslang si Heneral Antonio Luna at dito na unti unting naubos, natalo ang pwersa ang ni Aguinaldo hanggang sya.
Nang Mahuli si Aguinaldo dahil sa tip ng isang regiment ng mga Kapangpangan ay dito na nagsimula na tawaging dugong aso ang mga Kapangpangan subalit ang katotohanan sinadya ng mga kapangpangan na isuplong si Aguinaldo dahil para sa kanila isa itong taksil na nagpapatay sa Pangulong Andres Bonifacio at nagbenta ng rebolusyon kung kami ay dugong aso sya ay mismong aso, salita ito ng isang
hindi nila kinikilala, ang pamumuno ng taksil na si Gen. Emilio AguinaldoGanon din ang halos sintemento ng mga rebolusyonaryo sa kabisayaan at halos mayorya ng buong kapuluan.
Ito ang dahila\n kung bakit ang mga Pilipino ay nagkakabahabahagi sa kanilang kaisipan pati ang mga kabataan dahil sa ibat ibang bersyon ng kasaysayan ang mga tunay na bayani ay palabasing bobo, mangmang at ang mga taksil, manloloko at diktador ay gawing matalino at bayani. Dahil sa sinsay na kasaysayan ang ating mga kabataan ay wala ng gana na mag aral dahil imbes na maging inspirasyon para sa kanila ay nalulungkot lang sila mas gusto pa nila sa ngayon ang mag Hip hop kaysa mag aral ng kasaysayan nakakalungkot diba?
Gene
-- On Fri, 8/14/09, frank galarrita wrote:
From: frank galarrita
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 5:19 PM
Ang hindi marunong lumingon sa kanyang pinangalingan ay hindi makakarating sa kanyang paruruonan.
Kung lilingon lang tayo sa pinangalingan at masusuri ng husto kung paano tayo nagkaroon ng bansa na tinatawag na Philippines ay gawa lamang ng dalawang imperyalistang bansa, Spain and United States of America. Sa salitang Imperialist ang dahilan kung bakit nabago ang celebration of independence day of the Philippines from the 4th of July to 12h of June dahil ayaw na matawag ng USA na isang imperialist country. Kung namatay si Andres Bonifacio ay isang God's will lamang dahil siya ay isang risk factor sa itagumpay ng pagka independent for the Philippines. Masyadong mainipin at mapanganib ang mga desisyon ng pangkat ni Bonifacio, uneducated, kaya natural lamang na ang maitigil siya sa pamagitan ng kamatayan ng pangkat ni Aguinaldo na elitist consisted of intellectuals, I have no idea though why they killed Engr. Evangelista na isang kasapi din ni Aguinaldo. Ang tanging dahilan lamang kung bakit nag ka revolution ay kapareho lamang ngayon na ang buhay Filipino ay hindi pantay pantay. Na karamihan ay mahirap at katiting lamang ang mga mayaman. I am also wondering why this geek Atty. Garfunkel is in the ABS-CBN channel at may show tungkol sa pagpalabas ng mga Filipino papuntang USA. Most of his ads clients are well-to-do Filipino families. So here we go... itong unequal distribution of wealth ang main cause why there is always a revolution. Mag civil war kaya tayo muna para maiayos lahat ito pero huwag naman iyang kumunista dahil boring yata iyan.
From: Gene de Loyola
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com; cepol; OFC ; bulong ; arturo cruz ; art zamora ; mIDEO CRUZ ; tagalog ; samntha antonio
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:48:49 PM
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
Para talagang hinalukay na tubig na puro burak ang ilalim ang kasaysayan ng bansang Pilipibnas, kaya ng halukayin lalong lumabo ang kasaysayang ng Pilipinas, ng maitayo na ang Republika ng katagalugan na ang Pangulo ay si Pangulong Bonifacio ay nagngingit ang mga katulad ni Aguinaldo na may malaking ariarian ng mga lupain na maaapektuhan sa patakaran ng bagong pamahalaan
Nagplano ang mga ito sa pamamagitan Kombensyong Tejeros ay naagaw ang liderato kasabay ang akusasyon na si Bonifacio ay isang taksil sa rebolusyon sa pamamagitan ng makamandag na akusasyon pinapatay ni Aguinaldo si Bonifacio.
Nang sya si Aguinaldo na ang nakaupo bilang pumalit ay pamahalaang diktador ang pinairal sa pamamagitan pinalitan nya ng pangalan ang Republika mua Sa Republika ng Katagalugan ay ginawa nyang Republika Filipina na ang prinsipyo ay alanganing independet mala Liga Filipina lalo nalantad ang tunay na kulay ni Aguinaldo ng ibenta nya ang rebolusyon sa halagang 600 libong piso sa mga Kastila sa isang trtado sa Biyak na Bato at nagpatapon sa Hongkong akala nya pag nabeta na ang rebolusyon titigil na ang pag aaklas ang binhi ng KKK ay tumubo na sa buoong kapuluan sa Luzon Bisaya at Mindanao.
Kahit nakabalik na muli si Aguinaldo AY WALA NA ANG TIWALA NG MGA TUMAY NA REBOLUSYUNARYO SA KANYANG PAMAHALAAN. Bistado na rin na sya ay tuta naman ng mga Americano ay hindi na sya kinikilala ng mga rebolusyunaryo masalimuot na ang nangyari sa buong kapuluan watak watak ang rebolusyon mula ng paslangin si Pangulong Bonifacio kaya kung may sinasabing Bisayan Republic ay tutuo din ito dahil hindi nito kinikilala ang Pamahalaan ni Aguinaldo na alam nilang taksil na nagpapatay sa tunay na Pangulo ng Republika ng Katagalugan kaya kung sasaliksikin natin ang buong kapuluan at alamin ang tunay na Republika ng Katagalugan ay may mga buhay pa siguro na magsasaysay ng katotohanan. o kung wala na mag pisikal na ibedensya na lamang ang ating matatagpuan sa buong kapuluan. Pilit itong sininsay ng mga makasariling interes sa lipunan ng alipin at panginoon upang malinlang ang mamamayan at manatili sa kanila ang kayamanan ng bansa.
Note: Kung nais ng mga mamamayan ng kapuluang ito na TOTOHANANG MAGKAISA ito ang pahatid ng ng KATAGALUGAN- (MA-YI KAILUGAN ng buong kapuluan) Ang hindi marunong lumingon sa kanyang pinangalingan ay hindi makakarating sa kanyang paruruonan.
Gene de Loyola
Manlilikha sa Sining Biswal
____________ _________ __
--- On Fri, 8/14/09, frank galarrita wrote:
From: frank galarrita
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 6:19 AM
Ano ba iyang kasaysayan ng Pilipinas at mukhang talo pa yata ang trafik sa Quiapo. Fast forward kaya para maaninag kung nasan ang mga Filipino ngayon
--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Gene de Loyola wrote:
From: Gene de Loyola
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 4:46 AM
Totoo mga Kastila ang nagtatag ng Islas Filipinas kaya ang Filipinas tila provicia ng Espanya na pinamumunuan ng isang Gobernador at pinagsasamantalahan lang ng mga Kastila ang yaman kinukurakot lang ang natural resorses nito at ginagawang esklabo ang mga mamamayan mataas ang buwis na pinakikinabangan ng mga kurap na mananakop at mga paring sinbahan katolad ni (Padre Damaso) pagsasalarawan ng tipikal na pari sa panahong iyon sa nobela ni Rizal.
Kaya nagtayo ang mga mistisong Kastila ng La Liga Filipina ang layunin ay maging probincia ng Espanya ang Islas Filipina pero ayaw pumayag ng Espanya na maging probinsya ng Espanya ang Filipinas don naghihimutok sina Rizal at ang Liga Filipina na sa panahong iyo ay matindi na ang galit ng mga mistiso at native indio sa patakaran ng Espanya dahil bigo ang La Liga Filipina natatag ang KKK na pinamunuan ni Gat Andres Bonifacio isang mistisong Kastila na ang layunin ay maging Independent ang buong Isla mula Luzon Bisaya at Mindanao laban sa mapang api at mapagsamantalang Espanya. at itinatag ang kauna unahang republika sa Asya Ang Republika ng Katagalugan.
Dito muna sigurado mag pupuputak na naman si Bankaw nito. si Ken at ilang nagtatalakayan may lohika ang kanilang mga paliwanag nakatutuwa.
Gene
ultramar. Noong 12 junio 1898, nang nakikita ni Emilo Aguinaldo Fami na natatalo na ang mga Castila kaya nila prinoclama ang independencia del pueblo filipino.
Ken
--- On Thu, 8/13/09, julius wrote:
From: julius
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: "botomo@yahoogroups .com"
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 7:01 AM
ano kamo bankaw, mga kastila ang nagtatag nang pinas?! conotic colonial mindset talaga. papano, kastilang aklat sources nya, na mismong mga ninuno nya ang nagsulat.
kahabahaba nang sinulat na wala namang sinasabi kundi puro panglalait sa mga pinoy. wala nang magaling kundi ang mga dayuhang mandurugas. tsk, tsk, tsk.
SeNt fRom mY iPhoNe
On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:43 PM, "Bankaw Itomon" wrote:
This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted. Ask the
--- On Thu, 8/13/09, Ceferino Benedicto, Jr. wrote:
From: Ceferino Benedicto, Jr.
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 4:13 PM
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Tumbagang Isda wrote:
From: Tumbagang Isda
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 12:16 AM
Hmmm, alam ko ang mga posisyon nila ukol dito.
At ako, nagsasalisksik diyan, may punto naman ang bawat isa, ang lengwahe ay importante rin, ngunit hindi lahat ay Tagalog. Ako Tagalog pero hindi makasulat ng tama sa wikang ito. Pahirap. Hirap rin ako sa Kastila, sa Ingles mas madali sa akin. Sanay kasi rito.
Philippine history is different in every region in that their experiences are different, probably from isolation, as this also created the many different dialects and languages from way back. Every so many kilometer, we do have a different dialect or language.
In choosing a neutral language, for me, I am giving respect towards non-Tagalog speakers who are members of this for a, in this respect, it also makes it easy for me to understand. Nothing else, I am not destroying anything, I am expecting building a nation with respect to others whose history is not the same as Katagalugan. Believe me, they are different.
Katagalugan is not Philippines, it is only a part of it.
From: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Gene de Loyola
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:00 AM
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com ; botomo@yahoogroups. com ; cepol; mina garcia; Julie Po
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
Tumbaga,
Eto na naman balik aral uli tayo sa kasaysayan na ilang beses ng masinsinang tinalakay sa forum na ito yang mga sinasabi mo ay paulit ulit ng sinagot at konkretong pinatunayan maganda siguro na magsaliksik tayong mabuti.
Tanungin mo na lang si G. JM, si G. Placido Calderon si Ben si Bangkaw atbp.
Eto na lang ang paabot ng Katagalugan.
ANG HINDI MARUNONG LUMINGON SA KANYANG PINANGGALINGAN AY HINDI MAKARARATING SA KANYANG PAROROONAN.
Pag naisaayos ko e send ko sayo ang buong kopya ng nilarga ng diskusyon at bahala ka ng magpasya, para hindi na tayo magsayang ng panahon, oras at isip sa isyung ito.
Gene
____________ ______
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Tumbagang Isda wrote:
From: Tumbagang Isda
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 11:45 PM
Bonifacio’s concept of “Republika ng Katagalugan” did not last long, his recruits in Pampango and Ilocano regions didn’t like the idea of being called Tagalogs, because they are not Tagalog speakers. The idea of the Filipino became a greater cause than Katagalugan. Basically, one reason that I couldn’t care less about changing Philippines as a name for the country, these revolutionarios fought for Filipinos, including mestizos of many sort with them.
For example, my Pampango-Portuguese relatives.
It is interesting to note that when faced with a common enemy, Filipinos did unite, against the Spaniards, Americans and Japanese, this is in spite of the divisions and loyalties to regions, linguistics and cultural differences, including differences in religious thought.
Let us think about that for a moment.
Back then, in order to unite linguistics differences they used Spanish as neutral language, today, there are more English speakers in the Philippines than Spanish, so it is much more practical to use English, for now, as the way Spanish was proposed.
From: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of bart bartolome
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:26 PM
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
Thank you bro. Gene sa magandang katotohanan na hindi ko nakita at
natutuhan sa paaralan at tila sinabotaje rin. kung sino ang may utak nito
ay dapat usigin at parusahan... Bakit nangyari ito at bakit di inusig at
pinabayaan na maging bulag ang ating mga mamayan sa katotohanan?
Tama ang kasamang TI, JM at iba pang mga pantas at bayani ng bansa na
unti unting binubuksan ang mata natin sa katotohanan. Sabi sa Bible "For
lack of knowledge people perish." At ang katotohan ang magliligtas at
magpapalaya at atin. Let us all welcome this dialogue in its true perspective
to set our people free from all kinds of unrighteousness and evil towards
our suffering impoverished and peace loving Filipino people.
bart
--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Gene de Loyola wrote:
From: Gene de Loyola
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com , botomo@yahoogroups. com , "cepol", "Ellen Eslao" , "Lowie Eslao"
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 8:20 PM
Ang Tagalog may translasyon sa English sana may tranlasyon din ang Cebuano
Noong bago pa lang ako dito sa talakayan mga 2004 wlang tranlasyon ng Tagalog sa English ngayon meron na kaya madali ng mag translate sa ibang wika sa mundo.
Ang Pilipino wala pa rin nakasandal lang sa Tagalog hindi kasi mawari parang pinag halo halong kulay na nag putik. Yung napapanood sa TV na sigaw ng kalayaan sa Balintawak ay maling mali sa katotohanan ng kasaysayan Ang isinisigay na kalayaan MABUHAY ANG PILIPINAS sigaw sa TV ng mga rebolusyunaryo habang pinupunit ang cedula Las Islas Filipinas magulo diba? Ang tutuo ang isingaw nina Bonifacio ay mabuhay ang DAKILANG HARING ARAW NG REPUBLIKA NG KATAGALUGAN sabay punit ng Cedula Las Islas Filipinas. Ang KATAGALUGAN na binubuo ng 7,107 isla ay tinatawag ng mga Tsino na MA-YI na ang ibig sabihin Kapuluan ng Kailugan sa panahong iyon ay hindi pa nakararating ang mga Europyan katulad ni Magallanes at sumunod si Legazpi na nag binyag sa pangalang Filipinas hango sa ngalan ni haring Filipe ng Espanya. Ang mga tunay na FILIPINO ay mga Pinisulares na dayuhang Kastila na ipinanganak sa isla 7,107 isla. na pinamumunuan ng Gobernador Heneral at mga paring kastila prayle.
Ang mga mistisong katulad nina Jose Rizal, Juan, Luna, Marcelo H. Del Pilar, Andres Bonifacio atbp. mga intelektwal na nag buo ng La Liga Filipina na nagsulong na maging probinsya ng Espanya ang Las Islas Filipinas ay nabigo. Kay itong si Andres Bonifacio ay sumapi sa Katipunan KKK (Kataas taasang Katipunan ng mga anak ng Bayan) na sa kalaunan si Andres Bonifacio ang naging Supremo. na nag resulta ng pagtatayo ng kauna unahang Republika sa Asya ANG REPUBLIKA NG KATAGALUGAN na sumasaklaw sa 7,107 isla sa buong kapuluan mula Luzon , Visaya at Mindanao, kaagad nagpadala ang Republika ng expedisyon sa lahat ng isla mula Luzon Visaya at Mindana at ang binhi ng Rebolusyon ay ikinalat sa buong kapuluan.
Dahil sa ganitong pangyayari ang mga katulad ni Aguinaldo na mayayaman nakita na maaapektohan ang kanilang interes at may pansariling ambisyon ay nag plano na e kodita ang pamunuan ni Pangulong Andres Bonifacio.
Ang pagsalakay ng pwersa ni Bonifacio sa Arsenal ng mga Kastila sa San Juan ay isa sanang malaking tagumpay na naging kabiguan na muntik pa nitong ikamatay dahil sa hindi pagtalima ng pwersa ng Katimunana mula sa South ( Cavite ) na pinamumunuan nhi Aguinaldo layunin nito na biguin ang lahat ng layunin ng rebolusyon
Ang kombenyong Tejeros sa Cavite ang pinakang pinal na sabotahe sa rebolusyon
Saka ko na itutuloy paasensya na po may tumawag na mahalaga
Gene
Gene
____________
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Tumbagang Isda wrote:
From: Tumbagang Isda
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 1:51 AM
In my POV (point of view), Mindset is how we think, like for this instance, the understanding of what constitute a language and dialect.
Language is a relationship between two speakers who has no intelligibility, i.e.; Cebuano and Tagalog would not understand each other, making the relationship LANGUAGE.
Dialect is a relationship between speakers whose intelligibility is of high percentage enough that they can understand each other, i.e.; Bulacan and Batangas Tagalogs.
Filipino is a dialect of Pilipino as another example. But that one I get confused.
Salamat,
Gene
____________________________
PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
Re:
Sa tutuo yun na nga ang itinuturing natin ay BAHAY NA MAAYOS PANGKAISIPAN KUNG GAYON ANG BAHAY NA ITO NA MAAYOS ANG TAHANAN NG KAISPAN NG LIPUNAN NA P[INAPAKINABANGAN BILANG TIRAHAN AT PAGMAMLASAKITAN PARA SA SUSUNOD PANG HENERASYON NA BINABOY NGA NG MGA TAKSIL NA NAGBALAT KAYONG REBOLUSYUNARYO AT PASLANGING ANG PANGULO NG REPUBLIKA
Korek na korek si Ka GENE.
Walang magiging katuturan ang paglingon sa kasaysayan kung hindi IBUBUYANGYANG ang KATOTOHANAN na IBINAON sa LIMOT ng mga AMERIKANO na pumalit sa mga KASTILA sa PAG-ALIPIN sa MGA INDIOS.
Kailangang ILAGLAG sa hanay ng mga TUNAY NA BAYANI itong mapagpanggap at ang UNANG TUTA NG KANO: si EMILIO AGUINALDO at ang kanyang TROPA.
Makikita sa dokumentadong kasaysayan na HINDI nakalagay sa mga textbooks na dapat basahin ng mga Pilipino kung ano ang tunay na mga pinaggagawa ng TRAYDOR na si EMILIO AGUINALDO, ang Numero Unong NAGBENTA ng PILIPINAS sa Estados Unidos..
At SIMULA sa TROPA ni Emilio Aguinaldo ay kailangang halukayin at IBUYANGYANG ang KATRAYDURAN ng MGA TROPA nina MANUEL LUIS QUEZON y MOLINA simula noon pang siya ay AIDE-DE-CAMP ni EMILIO AGUINALDO noong 1896.
At kailangang MABUYANGYANG kung sinu-sino ba talaga ang mga NAGPAPANGGAP na pulitikong pulpol para DAW sa MASA ... subali't makakalkal na MASAma nga talaga ang hangad, dahil sa ANGKAN nga ng mga PULITIKONG PULPOL simula pa noong 1896.
JM
2009/8/16 Gene de Loyola
Pondasyon kaisipan: common vision, mission, goals & objectives, methodologies. All mental constructs.
Magkaisa kamo ng isip sa mga kinakailangan, Gene, katulad ng pagtayo ng bahay. Iba naman dapat ang pagkaisahan sa nagpaplano mag-rerepair ng bahay katulad ng nasabi ni Frank, iyon kung tama ang pagkaintindi ko.
Ogie,
Maraming salamat sa iyong pagbabahagi, malinaw naman na meron ng itinayo ang ating mga ninuno at napakagandang tahanan na kung hindi nabalasubas ay malaking ginhawa ang idinulot sa ating lipunan sa kasalukuyan.
Pag repair ng bahay ayon natumbok mo, yung mga tinuran ni Frank although may binanggit syang repair pero natabunan ng mga rekado ng pulis at mga politiko kaya nga pinuna ko ang kanyang direhe. Sa tutuo yun na nga ang itinuturing natin ay BAHAY NA MAAYOS PANGKAISIPAN KUNG GAYON ANG BAHAY NA ITO NA MAAYOS ANG TAHANAN NG KAISPAN NG LIPUNAN NA P[INAPAKINABANGAN BILANG TIRAHAN AT PAGMAMLASAKITAN PARA SA SUSUNOD PANG HENERASYON NA BINABOY NGA NG MGA TAKSIL NA NAGBALAT KAYONG REBOLUSYUNARYO AT PASLANGING ANG PANGULO NG REPUBLIKA. Malinaw na po ba?
Paglilinaw para hindi na tayo paulit ulit
Ogie & Frank kung ang tumbok nyo ay repair sa pundasyon ayos yun kung repair sa loob at labas ng bahay at hindi ang pundasyon paso na iyon patse patse ang resulta noon ang labas non kurapsyon at pagtakpan ang mabuway na direkyon sa
kapakinabangan ng iilan at mga dayuhan ang kawawang si Juan at Juana ay laging ginagamit na dahilang ng mga panginoong pulpol.
Sa muli,
Gene
________________________
--- On Sun, 8/16/09, pazogie
From: pazogie
Subject: Re: [CebuPolitics] Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
To: botomo@yahoogroups.com, "cepol"
Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 1:02 AM
Pondasyon kaisipan: common vision, mission, goals & objectives, methodologies. All mental constructs.
Magkaisa kamo ng isip sa mga kinakailangan, Gene, katulad ng pagtayo ng bahay. Iba naman dapat ang pagkaisahan sa nagpaplano mag-rerepair ng bahay katulad ng nasabi ni Frank, iyon kung tama ang pagkaintindi ko.
Ang pundasyon pangkaisipan Gene sa pagtatayo ng bayan, isang republika, ay talaga kinakailangan, katulad ng ano mang inaambisyonan na gagawin ng tao. Ang lahat naman na naitayo ng tao ay nagsimula sa isipan.
Anong klaseng pondasyon pangkaisipan ang dapat ipapalago o ikakalat natin sa ating mga kapatid?
Sa akin, magsimula sa tamang postura o attitude. Sa pagtatayo ng ano mang istraktura kailangan ang creativeness, or adopting the attitude of [always] accepting the existence of a better way to fulfill a need or a want of the Filipinos.
What comes next is the attitude of believing the power of collective endeavor vs one or a few. Two heads are better than one; many heads are better than two. But beware, many cooks spoil the broth! How many heads then?
Educated in a democratic institution there is a tendency to answer "a majority," which is not wrong before the public, but history will tell us this - the better way was thought of by one person, accepted and developed by a few that overwhelmed the majority into national conformity. A novel idea is never accepted at the instant it is thought; it has to wait for its time.
For our Philippines what is this better idea that can fulfill our needs; the redeeming idea that awaits its time of fruition? If it is not in existence yet how will we create it? Can we create it by listening only to the trapos [prince], the clergy [priest] and the rich [merchant and entrepreneur]? What of the academe, the poor and labor?
If the better idea is left alone to the prince, priest, and bizman can we harness the awesome collective power of the majority or the people? Hardly, unless we do away with that and go for the alternative idea of dictatorship, which should not be dismissed quickly in our case.
We have been taught and have been enamored by the ideal creation process involving the people because it is so in a democratic country, such as "allegedly" our nation.
If the people is to be involved then we must think of what is the best effective way and in what manner shall it be done? Everybody seems to have the answer for this question - education! which begs the question how?
Would it be education with the stick or without the stick?
Personally, I hope I will not be preempting your way of thinking and choice, is with the stick. Why do I think so?
For me, to educate the [corrupted wild] Filipino is to tame him. To tame means to domesticate. To domesticate is never to persuade a wild animal by words alone but mostly by the stick that hurts. The words are only the action keys [commands] that cannot be followed without the hurting stick.
If it is education by the stick with me then I would be opting for the dictatorial idea - a benevolent dictator.
Our democratic way of education without the stick is never truly democratic but subtly "decreed" by a few for brainwashing our people to remain forever slaves; if by a miracle there is a right one then we need to face the fact that it will be a long long wait, generations, until fruiting season. This officially sanctioned brainwashing education is dictated by no other than the prince, the priest, the bizmen, and the imperialistic interests, that are all of the rich. [Is our present clergy truly for the poor or for the rich? The brainwashed blind is quick to answer - the poor! How pathetic. If he is for the poor, how come Vatican is so rich [most stable country in the world] and run by a benevolent dictator while its third world surrogate countries are poor? Because it caters more "effectively and productively" to the rich, trades with the rich and acts like a dominating rich. Sa aming bayan lang, pagkatapos ng misa, ayon si Padre sakay kaagad sa kotse na may tsuper mag-aalmosal kina Donya Josefa. At pag-uwi may bitbit na puting sobre. Hesusmaryahosep patawarin po, ano ang ikokompetensiya ni Juan diyan? oooooy..buti sana iyong laman ng sobre ay para sa mga alipin. Pero pareho din iyon.]
So, Gene and Frank, in line with pondasyon pangkaisipan ito lang po ang ma-i-i share
ko ngayon. Isang palaisipan.
Ogie
--- On Sat, 8/15/09, Gene de Loyola
From: Gene de Loyola
Subject: [CebuPolitics] Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com, "cepol"
Date: Saturday, 15 August, 2009, 10:28 PM
Frank,
Ang isang bahay na matatag ay malinaw ang mga estraktura bilang tirahan sinisiguro natin ang kaayusan ng lahat mula sa pondasyon haligi dingding hanggang bubong sa kalooban naman kailanag kompleto ang pangangailangan tulad ng palikuran kusina sala, kwarto at kwartong para sa bisita at ang mga pintuan kung merong hagdanan o elevator kailangan nasa ayos ang lahat sa labas naman ng bahay nadoon ang katiykan na may mapagdadausan ng mga kailangan ng komunidad at daluyang ng kanal.
Kung maayos na ang lahat susunod naman ang tubig koryente at ang komonikasyon
ang mga ito ay sa ating kasalukuyang panahon.
Pangunahin pa rin ang basic na structura ng bahay ang kahalagahan ng pundasyon ay hindi maaring balewalain sa lahat ng uri ng structura building, tulay, monumento atbp.
Kung maayos na ang lahat susunod naman ang tubig koryente at ang komonikasyon
ang mga ito ay sa ating kasalukuyang panahon.
Pangunahin pa rin ang basic na structura ng bahay ang kahalagahan ng pundasyon ay hindi maaring balewalain sa lahat ng uri ng structura building, tulay, monumento atbp.
NAPAKAHALGA ANG PONDAYON DAHIL DITO NAKASALALAY ANG LAHAT KALIGTASAN, KAAYUSAN, KAUNLARAN.
GANITO DIN ANG ATING KAISIPAN AT KAMALAYAN SA KASAYSAYAN PUNDASYON PANGKAISIPAN TUNGO SA TUNAY NA KAUNLARABN SA HINAHARAP KUNG MALABO ANG ATING PONDASYONG PANGKAISIPAN SA ATING KASAYSAYAN MALABO RIN ANG TINATAHAK NA KINABUKASAN O HINAHARAP.
Frank hindi mo malalim na naunawa ang ibig kung sabihi malamya ang iyong analisa kaya hindi lubusang natumbok na maliwanag. Ang yung mga analogo ay hindi reyalismo kudi mala lamang at patungo sa abstrakto, gayon pa man maganda pa rin dahil mula sa pagiging abstrakto malilinaw natin ito tungo sa riyalismo.
Sa muli,
Gene
--- On Sat, 8/15/09, frank galarrita
From: frank galarrita
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 6:26 PM
Ito ang dahila\n kung bakit ang mga Pilipino ay nagkakabahabahagi sa kanilang kaisipan pati ang mga kabataan dahil sa ibat ibang bersyon ng kasaysayan ang mga tunay na bayani ay palabasing bobo, mangmang at ang mga taksil, manloloko at diktador ay gawing matalino at bayani.
Kung ang bahay ay luma ngunit papasa pa sa structural engineer na pwede pang tirahan sa pamamagitan ng renovation ay ganito lang sana ang nararapat sa isipan na hinahalungkat mo Gene. I am also surprised of why an infested short memory of the Filipinos can blame all these to the past. Additionally, the Filipinos can turn their back and never has to turn around but go forward by instinct, lahat ng tao ay gumagawa niyan. What is important now is to see the benefit of having a country and focus only for its development, that is it. The heroes were all dead and now it is our turn as benefeciaries to continue their hope and that is for the good of the people. If we work only 8 to 10 hours a day, a good production must be always be the done. That at the closing of the day must be asked of what have been done for the good of the people. The progress of the nation is always a one-way thinking.
From: Gene de Loyola
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com; cepol
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
Frank,
Kaya nagkagulogulo ang ang bansa at nagkawatak watak dahil sa pag-agaw ng Kapangyarihan sa pamamagitan ng kudeta sa Tejeros at pagpaslang kay Pangulong Andres Bonifacio ng Republika ng Katagalugan sa utos ni Aguilado dahil sa pangyayari nagkawatak watak ang mga rebolusyunaryo pinatindi pa ito ng palitan ni Aguinaldo ang pangalan ng Republika ng Katagalugan sa isang dikreto at gawin nyang Republika Filipina.
Ang binhi ng rebolusyon ay naipunla na sa buong kapuluan sa pamamagitan ng mga pinadalang expitionary forces ng Republika ng Katagalugan sa buong Luzon Visaya at Mindanao. Lalo pang nasuklam ang mga rebolusyunaryo ng makipagkasundo si Aguinaldo sa mga kastila sa pamamagitan ng Kasuduan sa Biak na Bato at ibenta ang rebolusyon sa halagang 600 libong piso kapalit ang paghinto ng rebolusyon at pagpapatapon sa Hongkong ng liderato ni Aguinaldo.
Sa galit ng mga rebolusyunaryo lalong nagsiklab ang rebolusyon sa buong kapuluan na ikinagalit din ng mga Kastila kay Aguinaldo dahil hindi nahinto ang himagsikan ang mga kampo ng mga Kastila ay halos nalupig na sa buong kapuluan sa Hongkong ay may natagpuang bagong amo si Aguinaldo ito Ang lumalakas na armadang Americano sa pamumuno ni US Commdore George Dewey. Komander ng US Navy sa Asya na naka base sa Hongkong na kung saan nagdurog sa boung plotilya ng Espanya sa Manila Bay noong Mayo 1, 1898 at pinalubog lahat ng pwersang Naval ng Kastila.
Habang naka blokeo ng Armada ng US ang Manila Bay sinabihin ng US si Aguinaldo na mula sa pagka exile sa Hongkong na bumalik na sa Pilipinas at ipagpatuloy ang paglaban sa mga natitirang Kastila na sa panahong iyon ay patalo na sa mga rebolusyunaryo ang buong Kabisayaan ang malaya na sa mga Kastila at nagtayo na ng kanilang Republika ng mga Bisaya.
Nang magbalik si Aguinaldo palihim sa tulong ng mga Americano sakay ng barko de guerra ng US ay tinipong muli ang mga kapanalig sa Cavite inatake ang ilang maliliit na prisinto ng Kastila at idiniklara ang kalayaan ng Pilipinas sa balkonahe ng kanyang manseon sa Imus.
Masalimuot at maraming kalokohan ang nangyari sa pamumuno ni Aguinaldo sa rebolusyon hanggang pmuling ipapaslang si Heneral Antonio Luna at dito na unti unting naubos, natalo ang pwersa ang ni Aguinaldo hanggang sya.
Nang Mahuli si Aguinaldo dahil sa tip ng isang regiment ng mga Kapangpangan ay dito na nagsimula na tawaging dugong aso ang mga Kapangpangan subalit ang katotohanan sinadya ng mga kapangpangan na isuplong si Aguinaldo dahil para sa kanila isa itong taksil na nagpapatay sa Pangulong Andres Bonifacio at nagbenta ng rebolusyon kung kami ay dugong aso sya ay mismong aso, salita ito ng isang
hindi nila kinikilala, ang pamumuno ng taksil na si Gen. Emilio AguinaldoGanon din ang halos sintemento ng mga rebolusyonaryo sa kabisayaan at halos mayorya ng buong kapuluan.
Ito ang dahila\n kung bakit ang mga Pilipino ay nagkakabahabahagi sa kanilang kaisipan pati ang mga kabataan dahil sa ibat ibang bersyon ng kasaysayan ang mga tunay na bayani ay palabasing bobo, mangmang at ang mga taksil, manloloko at diktador ay gawing matalino at bayani. Dahil sa sinsay na kasaysayan ang ating mga kabataan ay wala ng gana na mag aral dahil imbes na maging inspirasyon para sa kanila ay nalulungkot lang sila mas gusto pa nila sa ngayon ang mag Hip hop kaysa mag aral ng kasaysayan nakakalungkot diba?
Gene
-- On Fri, 8/14/09, frank galarrita
From: frank galarrita
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 5:19 PM
Ang hindi marunong lumingon sa kanyang pinangalingan ay hindi makakarating sa kanyang paruruonan.
Kung lilingon lang tayo sa pinangalingan at masusuri ng husto kung paano tayo nagkaroon ng bansa na tinatawag na Philippines ay gawa lamang ng dalawang imperyalistang bansa, Spain and United States of America. Sa salitang Imperialist ang dahilan kung bakit nabago ang celebration of independence day of the Philippines from the 4th of July to 12h of June dahil ayaw na matawag ng USA na isang imperialist country. Kung namatay si Andres Bonifacio ay isang God's will lamang dahil siya ay isang risk factor sa itagumpay ng pagka independent for the Philippines. Masyadong mainipin at mapanganib ang mga desisyon ng pangkat ni Bonifacio, uneducated, kaya natural lamang na ang maitigil siya sa pamagitan ng kamatayan ng pangkat ni Aguinaldo na elitist consisted of intellectuals, I have no idea though why they killed Engr. Evangelista na isang kasapi din ni Aguinaldo. Ang tanging dahilan lamang kung bakit nag ka revolution ay kapareho lamang ngayon na ang buhay Filipino ay hindi pantay pantay. Na karamihan ay mahirap at katiting lamang ang mga mayaman. I am also wondering why this geek Atty. Garfunkel is in the ABS-CBN channel at may show tungkol sa pagpalabas ng mga Filipino papuntang USA. Most of his ads clients are well-to-do Filipino families. So here we go... itong unequal distribution of wealth ang main cause why there is always a revolution. Mag civil war kaya tayo muna para maiayos lahat ito pero huwag naman iyang kumunista dahil boring yata iyan.
From: Gene de Loyola
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com; cepol
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:48:49 PM
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS? PAGLINGON SA KASAYSAYAN
Para talagang hinalukay na tubig na puro burak ang ilalim ang kasaysayan ng bansang Pilipibnas, kaya ng halukayin lalong lumabo ang kasaysayang ng Pilipinas, ng maitayo na ang Republika ng katagalugan na ang Pangulo ay si Pangulong Bonifacio ay nagngingit ang mga katulad ni Aguinaldo na may malaking ariarian ng mga lupain na maaapektuhan sa patakaran ng bagong pamahalaan
Nagplano ang mga ito sa pamamagitan Kombensyong Tejeros ay naagaw ang liderato kasabay ang akusasyon na si Bonifacio ay isang taksil sa rebolusyon sa pamamagitan ng makamandag na akusasyon pinapatay ni Aguinaldo si Bonifacio.
Nang sya si Aguinaldo na ang nakaupo bilang pumalit ay pamahalaang diktador ang pinairal sa pamamagitan pinalitan nya ng pangalan ang Republika mua Sa Republika ng Katagalugan ay ginawa nyang Republika Filipina na ang prinsipyo ay alanganing independet mala Liga Filipina lalo nalantad ang tunay na kulay ni Aguinaldo ng ibenta nya ang rebolusyon sa halagang 600 libong piso sa mga Kastila sa isang trtado sa Biyak na Bato at nagpatapon sa Hongkong akala nya pag nabeta na ang rebolusyon titigil na ang pag aaklas ang binhi ng KKK ay tumubo na sa buoong kapuluan sa Luzon Bisaya at Mindanao.
Kahit nakabalik na muli si Aguinaldo AY WALA NA ANG TIWALA NG MGA TUMAY NA REBOLUSYUNARYO SA KANYANG PAMAHALAAN. Bistado na rin na sya ay tuta naman ng mga Americano ay hindi na sya kinikilala ng mga rebolusyunaryo masalimuot na ang nangyari sa buong kapuluan watak watak ang rebolusyon mula ng paslangin si Pangulong Bonifacio kaya kung may sinasabing Bisayan Republic ay tutuo din ito dahil hindi nito kinikilala ang Pamahalaan ni Aguinaldo na alam nilang taksil na nagpapatay sa tunay na Pangulo ng Republika ng Katagalugan kaya kung sasaliksikin natin ang buong kapuluan at alamin ang tunay na Republika ng Katagalugan ay may mga buhay pa siguro na magsasaysay ng katotohanan. o kung wala na mag pisikal na ibedensya na lamang ang ating matatagpuan sa buong kapuluan. Pilit itong sininsay ng mga makasariling interes sa lipunan ng alipin at panginoon upang malinlang ang mamamayan at manatili sa kanila ang kayamanan ng bansa.
Note: Kung nais ng mga mamamayan ng kapuluang ito na TOTOHANANG MAGKAISA ito ang pahatid ng ng KATAGALUGAN- (MA-YI KAILUGAN ng buong kapuluan) Ang hindi marunong lumingon sa kanyang pinangalingan ay hindi makakarating sa kanyang paruruonan.
Gene de Loyola
Manlilikha sa Sining Biswal
____________ _________ __
--- On Fri, 8/14/09, frank galarrita
From: frank galarrita
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 6:19 AM
Ano ba iyang kasaysayan ng Pilipinas at mukhang talo pa yata ang trafik sa Quiapo. Fast forward kaya para maaninag kung nasan ang mga Filipino ngayon
--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Gene de Loyola
From: Gene de Loyola
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 4:46 AM
Totoo mga Kastila ang nagtatag ng Islas Filipinas kaya ang Filipinas tila provicia ng Espanya na pinamumunuan ng isang Gobernador at pinagsasamantalahan lang ng mga Kastila ang yaman kinukurakot lang ang natural resorses nito at ginagawang esklabo ang mga mamamayan mataas ang buwis na pinakikinabangan ng mga kurap na mananakop at mga paring sinbahan katolad ni (Padre Damaso) pagsasalarawan ng tipikal na pari sa panahong iyon sa nobela ni Rizal.
Kaya nagtayo ang mga mistisong Kastila ng La Liga Filipina ang layunin ay maging probincia ng Espanya ang Islas Filipina pero ayaw pumayag ng Espanya na maging probinsya ng Espanya ang Filipinas don naghihimutok sina Rizal at ang Liga Filipina na sa panahong iyo ay matindi na ang galit ng mga mistiso at native indio sa patakaran ng Espanya dahil bigo ang La Liga Filipina natatag ang KKK na pinamunuan ni Gat Andres Bonifacio isang mistisong Kastila na ang layunin ay maging Independent ang buong Isla mula Luzon Bisaya at Mindanao laban sa mapang api at mapagsamantalang Espanya. at itinatag ang kauna unahang republika sa Asya Ang Republika ng Katagalugan.
Dito muna sigurado mag pupuputak na naman si Bankaw nito. si Ken at ilang nagtatalakayan may lohika ang kanilang mga paliwanag nakatutuwa.
Gene
ultramar. Noong 12 junio 1898, nang nakikita ni Emilo Aguinaldo Fami na natatalo na ang mga Castila kaya nila prinoclama ang independencia del pueblo filipino.
Ken
--- On Thu, 8/13/09, julius
From: julius
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: "botomo@yahoogroups .com"
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 7:01 AM
ano kamo bankaw, mga kastila ang nagtatag nang pinas?! conotic colonial mindset talaga. papano, kastilang aklat sources nya, na mismong mga ninuno nya ang nagsulat.
kahabahaba nang sinulat na wala namang sinasabi kundi puro panglalait sa mga pinoy. wala nang magaling kundi ang mga dayuhang mandurugas. tsk, tsk, tsk.
SeNt fRom mY iPhoNe
On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:43 PM, "Bankaw Itomon"
This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted. Ask the
--- On Thu, 8/13/09, Ceferino Benedicto, Jr.
From: Ceferino Benedicto, Jr.
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 4:13 PM
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Tumbagang Isda
From: Tumbagang Isda
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
To: ofcouncil@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 12:16 AM
Hmmm, alam ko ang mga posisyon nila ukol dito.
At ako, nagsasalisksik diyan, may punto naman ang bawat isa, ang lengwahe ay importante rin, ngunit hindi lahat ay Tagalog. Ako Tagalog pero hindi makasulat ng tama sa wikang ito. Pahirap. Hirap rin ako sa Kastila, sa Ingles mas madali sa akin. Sanay kasi rito.
Philippine history is different in every region in that their experiences are different, probably from isolation, as this also created the many different dialects and languages from way back. Every so many kilometer, we do have a different dialect or language.
In choosing a neutral language, for me, I am giving respect towards non-Tagalog speakers who are members of this for a, in this respect, it also makes it easy for me to understand. Nothing else, I am not destroying anything, I am expecting building a nation with respect to others whose history is not the same as Katagalugan. Believe me, they are different.
Katagalugan is not Philippines, it is only a part of it.
From: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Gene de Loyola
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:00 AM
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com ; botomo@yahoogroups. com ; cepol; mina garcia; Julie Po
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
Tumbaga,
Eto na naman balik aral uli tayo sa kasaysayan na ilang beses ng masinsinang tinalakay sa forum na ito yang mga sinasabi mo ay paulit ulit ng sinagot at konkretong pinatunayan maganda siguro na magsaliksik tayong mabuti.
Tanungin mo na lang si G. JM, si G. Placido Calderon si Ben si Bangkaw atbp.
Eto na lang ang paabot ng Katagalugan.
ANG HINDI MARUNONG LUMINGON SA KANYANG PINANGGALINGAN AY HINDI MAKARARATING SA KANYANG PAROROONAN.
Pag naisaayos ko e send ko sayo ang buong kopya ng nilarga ng diskusyon at bahala ka ng magpasya, para hindi na tayo magsayang ng panahon, oras at isip sa isyung ito.
Gene
____________ ______
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Tumbagang Isda
From: Tumbagang Isda
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 11:45 PM
Bonifacio’s concept of “Republika ng Katagalugan” did not last long, his recruits in Pampango and Ilocano regions didn’t like the idea of being called Tagalogs, because they are not Tagalog speakers. The idea of the Filipino became a greater cause than Katagalugan. Basically, one reason that I couldn’t care less about changing Philippines as a name for the country, these revolutionarios fought for Filipinos, including mestizos of many sort with them.
For example, my Pampango-Portuguese relatives.
It is interesting to note that when faced with a common enemy, Filipinos did unite, against the Spaniards, Americans and Japanese, this is in spite of the divisions and loyalties to regions, linguistics and cultural differences, including differences in religious thought.
Let us think about that for a moment.
Back then, in order to unite linguistics differences they used Spanish as neutral language, today, there are more English speakers in the Philippines than Spanish, so it is much more practical to use English, for now, as the way Spanish was proposed.
From: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of bart bartolome
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:26 PM
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
Thank you bro. Gene sa magandang katotohanan na hindi ko nakita at
natutuhan sa paaralan at tila sinabotaje rin. kung sino ang may utak nito
ay dapat usigin at parusahan... Bakit nangyari ito at bakit di inusig at
pinabayaan na maging bulag ang ating mga mamayan sa katotohanan?
Tama ang kasamang TI, JM at iba pang mga pantas at bayani ng bansa na
unti unting binubuksan ang mata natin sa katotohanan. Sabi sa Bible "For
lack of knowledge people perish." At ang katotohan ang magliligtas at
magpapalaya at atin. Let us all welcome this dialogue in its true perspective
to set our people free from all kinds of unrighteousness and evil towards
our suffering impoverished and peace loving Filipino people.
bart
--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Gene de Loyola
From: Gene de Loyola
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com , botomo@yahoogroups. com , "cepol"
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 8:20 PM
Ang Tagalog may translasyon sa English sana may tranlasyon din ang Cebuano
Noong bago pa lang ako dito sa talakayan mga 2004 wlang tranlasyon ng Tagalog sa English ngayon meron na kaya madali ng mag translate sa ibang wika sa mundo.
Ang Pilipino wala pa rin nakasandal lang sa Tagalog hindi kasi mawari parang pinag halo halong kulay na nag putik. Yung napapanood sa TV na sigaw ng kalayaan sa Balintawak ay maling mali sa katotohanan ng kasaysayan Ang isinisigay na kalayaan MABUHAY ANG PILIPINAS sigaw sa TV ng mga rebolusyunaryo habang pinupunit ang cedula Las Islas Filipinas magulo diba? Ang tutuo ang isingaw nina Bonifacio ay mabuhay ang DAKILANG HARING ARAW NG REPUBLIKA NG KATAGALUGAN sabay punit ng Cedula Las Islas Filipinas. Ang KATAGALUGAN na binubuo ng 7,107 isla ay tinatawag ng mga Tsino na MA-YI na ang ibig sabihin Kapuluan ng Kailugan sa panahong iyon ay hindi pa nakararating ang mga Europyan katulad ni Magallanes at sumunod si Legazpi na nag binyag sa pangalang Filipinas hango sa ngalan ni haring Filipe ng Espanya. Ang mga tunay na FILIPINO ay mga Pinisulares na dayuhang Kastila na ipinanganak sa isla 7,107 isla. na pinamumunuan ng Gobernador Heneral at mga paring kastila prayle.
Ang mga mistisong katulad nina Jose Rizal, Juan, Luna, Marcelo H. Del Pilar, Andres Bonifacio atbp. mga intelektwal na nag buo ng La Liga Filipina na nagsulong na maging probinsya ng Espanya ang Las Islas Filipinas ay nabigo. Kay itong si Andres Bonifacio ay sumapi sa Katipunan KKK (Kataas taasang Katipunan ng mga anak ng Bayan) na sa kalaunan si Andres Bonifacio ang naging Supremo. na nag resulta ng pagtatayo ng kauna unahang Republika sa Asya ANG REPUBLIKA NG KATAGALUGAN na sumasaklaw sa 7,107 isla sa buong kapuluan mula Luzon , Visaya at Mindanao, kaagad nagpadala ang Republika ng expedisyon sa lahat ng isla mula Luzon Visaya at Mindana at ang binhi ng Rebolusyon ay ikinalat sa buong kapuluan.
Dahil sa ganitong pangyayari ang mga katulad ni Aguinaldo na mayayaman nakita na maaapektohan ang kanilang interes at may pansariling ambisyon ay nag plano na e kodita ang pamunuan ni Pangulong Andres Bonifacio.
Ang pagsalakay ng pwersa ni Bonifacio sa Arsenal ng mga Kastila sa San Juan ay isa sanang malaking tagumpay na naging kabiguan na muntik pa nitong ikamatay dahil sa hindi pagtalima ng pwersa ng Katimunana mula sa South ( Cavite ) na pinamumunuan nhi Aguinaldo layunin nito na biguin ang lahat ng layunin ng rebolusyon
Ang kombenyong Tejeros sa Cavite ang pinakang pinal na sabotahe sa rebolusyon
Saka ko na itutuloy paasensya na po may tumawag na mahalaga
Gene
Gene
____________
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Tumbagang Isda
From: Tumbagang Isda
Subject: RE: [ofcouncil] HOW TO UNITE THE FILIPINOS
To: ofcouncil@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 1:51 AM
In my POV (point of view), Mindset is how we think, like for this instance, the understanding of what constitute a language and dialect.
Language is a relationship between two speakers who has no intelligibility, i.e.; Cebuano and Tagalog would not understand each other, making the relationship LANGUAGE.
Dialect is a relationship between speakers whose intelligibility is of high percentage enough that they can understand each other, i.e.; Bulacan and Batangas Tagalogs.
Filipino is a dialect of Pilipino as another example. But that one I get confused.
SAMUT-SARI: BENEDICTO, CEFERINO, JOSE PEPE
From: julius
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: "botomo@yahoogroups .com"
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 7:01 AM
ano kamo bankaw, mga kastila ang nagtatag nang pinas?! conotic colonial mindset talaga. papano, kastilang aklat sources nya, na mismong mga ninuno nya ang nagsulat.
kahabahaba nang sinulat na wala namang sinasabi kundi puro panglalait sa mga pinoy. wala nang magaling kundi ang mga dayuhang mandurugas. tsk, tsk, tsk.
SeNt fRom mY iPhoNe
On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:43 PM, "Bankaw Itomon" wrote:
This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted. Ask the
--- On Thu, 8/13/09, Ceferino Benedicto, Jr. wrote:
From: Ceferino Benedicto, Jr.
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: "botomo@yahoogroups .com"
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 7:01 AM
ano kamo bankaw, mga kastila ang nagtatag nang pinas?! conotic colonial mindset talaga. papano, kastilang aklat sources nya, na mismong mga ninuno nya ang nagsulat.
kahabahaba nang sinulat na wala namang sinasabi kundi puro panglalait sa mga pinoy. wala nang magaling kundi ang mga dayuhang mandurugas. tsk, tsk, tsk.
SeNt fRom mY iPhoNe
On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:43 PM, "Bankaw Itomon"
This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted. Ask the
--- On Thu, 8/13/09, Ceferino Benedicto, Jr.
From: Ceferino Benedicto, Jr.
Subject: Re: [botomo] Re: PROBLEMA BA ANG SQUATTERS?
To: botomo@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 4:13 PM
TUMBAGANG ISDA , 2 Sept 2009
Hmmm, alam ko ang mga posisyon nila ukol dito.
At ako, nagsasalisksik diyan, may punto naman ang bawat isa, ang lengwahe ay importante rin, ngunit hindi lahat ay Tagalog. Ako Tagalog pero hindi makasulat ng tama sa wikang ito. Pahirap. Hirap rin ako sa Kastila, sa Ingles mas madali sa akin. Sanay kasi rito.
Philippine history is different in every region in that their experiences are different, probably from isolation, as this also created the many different dialects and languages from way back. Every so many kilometer, we do have a different dialect or language.
In choosing a neutral language, for me, I am giving respect towards non-Tagalog speakers who are members of this for a, in this respect, it also makes it easy for me to understand. Nothing else, I am not destroying anything, I am expecting building a nation with respect to others whose history is not the same as Katagalugan. Believe me, they are different.
Katagalugan is not Philippines, it is only a part of it.
At ako, nagsasalisksik diyan, may punto naman ang bawat isa, ang lengwahe ay importante rin, ngunit hindi lahat ay Tagalog. Ako Tagalog pero hindi makasulat ng tama sa wikang ito. Pahirap. Hirap rin ako sa Kastila, sa Ingles mas madali sa akin. Sanay kasi rito.
Philippine history is different in every region in that their experiences are different, probably from isolation, as this also created the many different dialects and languages from way back. Every so many kilometer, we do have a different dialect or language.
In choosing a neutral language, for me, I am giving respect towards non-Tagalog speakers who are members of this for a, in this respect, it also makes it easy for me to understand. Nothing else, I am not destroying anything, I am expecting building a nation with respect to others whose history is not the same as Katagalugan. Believe me, they are different.
Katagalugan is not Philippines, it is only a part of it.
GENE DE LOYOLA 1 Sept 2009
Tumbaga,
Eto na naman balik aral uli tayo sa kasaysayan na ilang beses ng masinsinang tinalakay sa forum na ito yang mga sinasabi mo ay paulit ulit ng sinagot at konkretong pinatunayan maganda siguro na magsaliksik tayong mabuti.
Tanungin mo na lang si G. JM, si G. Placido Calderon si Ben si Bangkaw atbp.
Eto na lang ang paabot ng Katagalugan.
ANG HINDI MARUNONG LUMINGON SA KANYANG PINANGGALINGAN AY HINDI MAKARARATING SA KANYANG PAROROONAN.
Pag naisaayos ko e send ko sayo ang buong kopya ng nilarga ng diskusyon at bahala ka ng magpasya, para hindi na tayo magsayang ng panahon, oras at isip sa isyung ito.
Gene
Eto na naman balik aral uli tayo sa kasaysayan na ilang beses ng masinsinang tinalakay sa forum na ito yang mga sinasabi mo ay paulit ulit ng sinagot at konkretong pinatunayan maganda siguro na magsaliksik tayong mabuti.
Tanungin mo na lang si G. JM, si G. Placido Calderon si Ben si Bangkaw atbp.
Eto na lang ang paabot ng Katagalugan.
ANG HINDI MARUNONG LUMINGON SA KANYANG PINANGGALINGAN AY HINDI MAKARARATING SA KANYANG PAROROONAN.
Pag naisaayos ko e send ko sayo ang buong kopya ng nilarga ng diskusyon at bahala ka ng magpasya, para hindi na tayo magsayang ng panahon, oras at isip sa isyung ito.
Gene
TUMBAGANG ISDA , 1 Sept 2009
Bonifacio’s concept of “Republika ng Katagalugan” did not last long, his recruits in Pampango and Ilocano regions didn’t like the idea of being called Tagalogs, because they are not Tagalog speakers. The idea of the Filipino became a greater cause than Katagalugan. Basically, one reason that I couldn’t care less about changing Philippines as a name for the country, these revolutionarios fought for Filipinos, including mestizos of many sort with them.
For example, my Pampango-Portuguese relatives.
It is interesting to note that when faced with a common enemy, Filipinos did unite, against the Spaniards, Americans and Japanese, this is in spite of the divisions and loyalties to regions, linguistics and cultural differences, including differences in religious thought.
Let us think about that for a moment.
Back then, in order to unite linguistics differences they used Spanish as neutral language, today, there are more English speakers in the Philippines than Spanish, so it is much more practical to use English, for now, as the way Spanish was proposed.
For example, my Pampango-Portuguese relatives.
It is interesting to note that when faced with a common enemy, Filipinos did unite, against the Spaniards, Americans and Japanese, this is in spite of the divisions and loyalties to regions, linguistics and cultural differences, including differences in religious thought.
Let us think about that for a moment.
Back then, in order to unite linguistics differences they used Spanish as neutral language, today, there are more English speakers in the Philippines than Spanish, so it is much more practical to use English, for now, as the way Spanish was proposed.
BART BARTOLOME, 31 August 2009
Thank you bro. Gene sa magandang katotohanan na hindi ko nakita at
natutuhan sa paaralan at tila sinabotaje rin. kung sino ang may utak nito
ay dapat usigin at parusahan... Bakit nangyari ito at bakit di inusig at
pinabayaan na maging bulag ang ating mga mamayan sa katotohanan?
Tama ang kasamang TI, JM at iba pang mga pantas at bayani ng bansa na
unti unting binubuksan ang mata natin sa katotohanan. Sabi sa Bible "For
lack of knowledge people perish." At ang katotohan ang magliligtas at
magpapalaya at atin. Let us all welcome this dialogue in its true perspective
to set our people free from all kinds of unrighteousness and evil towards
our suffering impoverished and peace loving Filipino people.
bart
natutuhan sa paaralan at tila sinabotaje rin. kung sino ang may utak nito
ay dapat usigin at parusahan... Bakit nangyari ito at bakit di inusig at
pinabayaan na maging bulag ang ating mga mamayan sa katotohanan?
Tama ang kasamang TI, JM at iba pang mga pantas at bayani ng bansa na
unti unting binubuksan ang mata natin sa katotohanan. Sabi sa Bible "For
lack of knowledge people perish." At ang katotohan ang magliligtas at
magpapalaya at atin. Let us all welcome this dialogue in its true perspective
to set our people free from all kinds of unrighteousness and evil towards
our suffering impoverished and peace loving Filipino people.
bart
TUMBAGANG ISDA , 1 Sept 2009
In my POV (point of view), Mindset is how we think, like for this instance, the understanding of what constitute a language and dialect.
Language is a relationship between two speakers who has no intelligibility, i.e.; Cebuano and Tagalog would not understand each other, making the relationship LANGUAGE.
Dialect is a relationship between speakers whose intelligibility is of high percentage enough that they can understand each other, i.e.; Bulacan and Batangas Tagalogs.
Filipino is a dialect of Pilipino as another example. But that one I get confused.
Language is a relationship between two speakers who has no intelligibility, i.e.; Cebuano and Tagalog would not understand each other, making the relationship LANGUAGE.
Dialect is a relationship between speakers whose intelligibility is of high percentage enough that they can understand each other, i.e.; Bulacan and Batangas Tagalogs.
Filipino is a dialect of Pilipino as another example. But that one I get confused.
GENE DE LOYOLA 31 August 2009
Ang Tagalog may translasyon sa English sana may tranlasyon din ang Cebuano
Noong bago pa lang ako dito sa talakayan mga 2004 wlang tranlasyon ng Tagalog sa English ngayon meron na kaya madali ng mag translate sa ibang wika sa mundo.
Ang Pilipino wala pa rin nakasandal lang sa Tagalog hindi kasi mawari parang pinag halo halong kulay na nag putik. Yung napapanood sa TV na sigaw ng kalayaan sa Balintawak ay maling mali sa katotohanan ng kasaysayan Ang isinisigay na kalayaan MABUHAY ANG PILIPINAS sigaw sa TV ng mga rebolusyunaryo habang pinupunit ang cedula Las Islas Filipinas magulo diba? Ang tutuo ang isingaw nina Bonifacio ay mabuhay ang DAKILANG HARING ARAW NG REPUBLIKA NG KATAGALUGAN sabay punit ng Cedula Las Islas Filipinas. Ang KATAGALUGAN na binubuo ng 7,107 isla ay tinatawag ng mga Tsino na MA-YI na ang ibig sabihin Kapuluan ng Kailugan sa panahong iyon ay hindi pa nakararating ang mga Europyan katulad ni Magallanes at sumunod si Legazpi na nag binyag sa pangalang Filipinas hango sa ngalan ni haring Filipe ng Espanya. Ang mga tunay na FILIPINO ay mga Pinisulares na dayuhang Kastila na ipinanganak sa isla 7,107 isla. na pinamumunuan ng Gobernador Heneral at mga paring kastila prayle.
Ang mga mistisong katulad nina Jose Rizal, Juan, Luna, Marcelo H. Del Pilar, Andres Bonifacio atbp. mga intelektwal na nag buo ng La Liga Filipina na nagsulong na maging probinsya ng Espanya ang Las Islas Filipinas ay nabigo. Kay itong si Andres Bonifacio ay sumapi sa Katipunan KKK (Kataas taasang Katipunan ng mga anak ng Bayan) na sa kalaunan si Andres Bonifacio ang naging Supremo. na nag resulta ng pagtatayo ng kauna unahang Republika sa Asya ANG REPUBLIKA NG KATAGALUGAN na sumasaklaw sa 7,107 isla sa buong kapuluan mula Luzon , Visaya at Mindanao, kaagad nagpadala ang Republika ng expedisyon sa lahat ng isla mula Luzon Visaya at Mindana at ang binhi ng Rebolusyon ay ikinalat sa buong kapuluan.
Dahil sa ganitong pangyayari ang mga katulad ni Aguinaldo na mayayaman nakita na maaapektohan ang kanilang interes at may pansariling ambisyon ay nag plano na e kodita ang pamunuan ni Pangulong Andres Bonifacio.
Ang pagsalakay ng pwersa ni Bonifacio sa Arsenal ng mga Kastila sa San Juan ay isa sanang malaking tagumpay na naging kabiguan na muntik pa nitong ikamatay dahil sa hindi pagtalima ng pwersa ng Katimunana mula sa South ( Cavite ) na pinamumunuan nhi Aguinaldo layunin nito na biguin ang lahat ng layunin ng rebolusyon
Ang kombenyong Tejeros sa Cavite ang pinakang pinal na sabotahe sa rebolusyon
Saka ko na itutuloy paasensya na po may tumawag na mahalaga
Gene
Noong bago pa lang ako dito sa talakayan mga 2004 wlang tranlasyon ng Tagalog sa English ngayon meron na kaya madali ng mag translate sa ibang wika sa mundo.
Ang Pilipino wala pa rin nakasandal lang sa Tagalog hindi kasi mawari parang pinag halo halong kulay na nag putik. Yung napapanood sa TV na sigaw ng kalayaan sa Balintawak ay maling mali sa katotohanan ng kasaysayan Ang isinisigay na kalayaan MABUHAY ANG PILIPINAS sigaw sa TV ng mga rebolusyunaryo habang pinupunit ang cedula Las Islas Filipinas magulo diba? Ang tutuo ang isingaw nina Bonifacio ay mabuhay ang DAKILANG HARING ARAW NG REPUBLIKA NG KATAGALUGAN sabay punit ng Cedula Las Islas Filipinas. Ang KATAGALUGAN na binubuo ng 7,107 isla ay tinatawag ng mga Tsino na MA-YI na ang ibig sabihin Kapuluan ng Kailugan sa panahong iyon ay hindi pa nakararating ang mga Europyan katulad ni Magallanes at sumunod si Legazpi na nag binyag sa pangalang Filipinas hango sa ngalan ni haring Filipe ng Espanya. Ang mga tunay na FILIPINO ay mga Pinisulares na dayuhang Kastila na ipinanganak sa isla 7,107 isla. na pinamumunuan ng Gobernador Heneral at mga paring kastila prayle.
Ang mga mistisong katulad nina Jose Rizal, Juan, Luna, Marcelo H. Del Pilar, Andres Bonifacio atbp. mga intelektwal na nag buo ng La Liga Filipina na nagsulong na maging probinsya ng Espanya ang Las Islas Filipinas ay nabigo. Kay itong si Andres Bonifacio ay sumapi sa Katipunan KKK (Kataas taasang Katipunan ng mga anak ng Bayan) na sa kalaunan si Andres Bonifacio ang naging Supremo. na nag resulta ng pagtatayo ng kauna unahang Republika sa Asya ANG REPUBLIKA NG KATAGALUGAN na sumasaklaw sa 7,107 isla sa buong kapuluan mula Luzon , Visaya at Mindanao, kaagad nagpadala ang Republika ng expedisyon sa lahat ng isla mula Luzon Visaya at Mindana at ang binhi ng Rebolusyon ay ikinalat sa buong kapuluan.
Dahil sa ganitong pangyayari ang mga katulad ni Aguinaldo na mayayaman nakita na maaapektohan ang kanilang interes at may pansariling ambisyon ay nag plano na e kodita ang pamunuan ni Pangulong Andres Bonifacio.
Ang pagsalakay ng pwersa ni Bonifacio sa Arsenal ng mga Kastila sa San Juan ay isa sanang malaking tagumpay na naging kabiguan na muntik pa nitong ikamatay dahil sa hindi pagtalima ng pwersa ng Katimunana mula sa South ( Cavite ) na pinamumunuan nhi Aguinaldo layunin nito na biguin ang lahat ng layunin ng rebolusyon
Ang kombenyong Tejeros sa Cavite ang pinakang pinal na sabotahe sa rebolusyon
Saka ko na itutuloy paasensya na po may tumawag na mahalaga
Gene
NELSON A. PAGUYO, 31 August 2009
The only rule I can think of is that one must give only one answer and then
explain how that can be operationalized. How do we unite the Filipino
people? Where can we unite? Who will unite us? What shall we unite
on?RULES:1. No name-calling2. No insulting words3. No curses4. Stick to the
topic5. English or Pilipino, or combination accepted6. Dialect accepted if
translated into Pilipino for better understanding7. Provide historical
background if possible8. Be as thorough as possible in explaining the
point/s9. One or two people may share the same idea
EmmaI am game.
Let’s
start.Question: How can we UNITE THE FILIPINOS: Answer: UNDERSTAND THE
FILIPINO MINDSET. To UNITE is defined as: is to join, combine, or
incorporate so as to form a single whole or unit; to cause to adhere; to
cause to be in a state of mutual sympathy, or to have a common opinion or
attitude; to have or exhibit in union or combination; and to act in concert
or agreement.
For any number of individuals to unite and act as one each must
have a clear understanding what is in the mind or what the other person in
thinking; to be able to relate with the decision making of the other person.
This entails the abandoning of ones usual way of thinking (think outside the
box), open–mindedness, flexibility and patience to avoid rising the
emotional aspect of the discussion. The root causes of the differences in
opinions and attitudes, and the possible implications or results of such
differences must be openly, honestly and thoroughly debated amicably.It is
the entrenched positions and or attitudes individuals have [taken] that
prevent us in uniting.
How these positions/attitudes or how we act were
formed or arrived at were based on our common mentality as a people –
colonial mentality, crab mentality, me first mentality, show off/keeping
with the Jones [materialism] , boastful, rigidity and hardheadedness, etc. –
must be looked at from their historical origin/perspective, present
practices and future implications of such Filipino mindset.
Only when we understand our Filipino Mindset shall we be able to focus on our
commonalities, and accept and be comfortable with our differences. Only then
can we all unite as a people with common goals and dreams to attain.
explain how that can be operationalized. How do we unite the Filipino
people? Where can we unite? Who will unite us? What shall we unite
on?RULES:1. No name-calling2. No insulting words3. No curses4. Stick to the
topic5. English or Pilipino, or combination accepted6. Dialect accepted if
translated into Pilipino for better understanding7. Provide historical
background if possible8. Be as thorough as possible in explaining the
point/s9. One or two people may share the same idea
EmmaI am game.
Let’s
start.Question: How can we UNITE THE FILIPINOS: Answer: UNDERSTAND THE
FILIPINO MINDSET. To UNITE is defined as: is to join, combine, or
incorporate so as to form a single whole or unit; to cause to adhere; to
cause to be in a state of mutual sympathy, or to have a common opinion or
attitude; to have or exhibit in union or combination; and to act in concert
or agreement.
For any number of individuals to unite and act as one each must
have a clear understanding what is in the mind or what the other person in
thinking; to be able to relate with the decision making of the other person.
This entails the abandoning of ones usual way of thinking (think outside the
box), open–mindedness, flexibility and patience to avoid rising the
emotional aspect of the discussion. The root causes of the differences in
opinions and attitudes, and the possible implications or results of such
differences must be openly, honestly and thoroughly debated amicably.It is
the entrenched positions and or attitudes individuals have [taken] that
prevent us in uniting.
How these positions/attitudes or how we act were
formed or arrived at were based on our common mentality as a people –
colonial mentality, crab mentality, me first mentality, show off/keeping
with the Jones [materialism] , boastful, rigidity and hardheadedness, etc. –
must be looked at from their historical origin/perspective, present
practices and future implications of such Filipino mindset.
Only when we understand our Filipino Mindset shall we be able to focus on our
commonalities, and accept and be comfortable with our differences. Only then
can we all unite as a people with common goals and dreams to attain.
JM NEPOMUCENO, 1 Sept. 09
Emma,
It is so simplistic to draw the conclusion that it is just a mere case of being "positive" or "negative", as you put it.
I would like to believe that you have enough maturity to deal with this direct feedback. The way you used "positive" or "negative" is directly related to your proposed topic. Another way of re-phrasing your "positive" or "negative":
Anyone who agrees with you about the topic you proposed is "positive".
Anyone who disagrees with you about the topic you proposed is "negative".
I can understand that since the topic you proposed is your "baby", you would want the discussion you are proposing to continue. And there is no one who can stop anyone else who will agree with you and pursue discussion of the topic that you proposed. And so, you can continue to pitch for your "baby" without having to get into any other discussion.
I reviewed the thread up to your last rejoinder, highlighted below, which I am now responding to. There were at least three who agreed with you to discuss the topic that you proposed. Those were: Bob Gabuna, Bart Bartolome, and Doc Nelson. For sure, there will be more among the other active readers of exchanges in the forum/archive, who may become interested and "agree with you" to pursue discussion of the topic that you proposed.
Your posting prompted me to review once more the summary of historical highlights from 1521 up to 31 August 2009 that I have collated, reviewed for accuracy in reporting / recording, searched for corroboration or contradictory documentation, evaluated the validity of the assertion / contention, and automatically updated with the most recent developments as they occur every calendar month.
Then, I applied the "rule" / guideline that you cited as follows:
The only rule I can think of is that one must give only one answer and then explain how that can be operationalized. How do we unite the Filipino people? Where can we unite? Who will unite us? What shall we unite on?
In order to avoid "disruption" of the flow that you wanted to pursue about "unity", I decided to trigger a new thread, that is linked with the old thread, but which can be pursued as a distinct and separate thread.
That is how the two (2) threads evolved.
Now, each member can choose as to which thread to get involved with. That is the proper perspective at this point.
In short, you are not in any way "forced" to even read further exchanges, much less post any rejoinder in this distinct and separate thread.
That is a basic rule for all members of any e-group in deciding to join in the exchanges in a forum, that is really more an archive of exchanges PER topic / thread. In case there is any issue about it, then we will have to ask the Forum Moderator to resolve it. But from where I am looking, anyone can even choose not to read e-mail notices that involve the two (2) threads at all.
Keep in mind that you posted your rejoinder in the NEW thread with a topic that will NOT involve your preferred topic.
So take it easy in using "labels" inappropriately, like "positive" or "negative" in the wrong context, i.e., limited to whether one agrees or not with you.
I wish you the best in pursuing the discussion of the topic that you proposed. And you do NOT really have to even read anything from further exchanges in this NEW thread.
Cheers!
JM
==
It is so simplistic to draw the conclusion that it is just a mere case of being "positive" or "negative", as you put it.
I would like to believe that you have enough maturity to deal with this direct feedback. The way you used "positive" or "negative" is directly related to your proposed topic. Another way of re-phrasing your "positive" or "negative":
Anyone who agrees with you about the topic you proposed is "positive".
Anyone who disagrees with you about the topic you proposed is "negative".
I can understand that since the topic you proposed is your "baby", you would want the discussion you are proposing to continue. And there is no one who can stop anyone else who will agree with you and pursue discussion of the topic that you proposed. And so, you can continue to pitch for your "baby" without having to get into any other discussion.
I reviewed the thread up to your last rejoinder, highlighted below, which I am now responding to. There were at least three who agreed with you to discuss the topic that you proposed. Those were: Bob Gabuna, Bart Bartolome, and Doc Nelson. For sure, there will be more among the other active readers of exchanges in the forum/archive, who may become interested and "agree with you" to pursue discussion of the topic that you proposed.
Your posting prompted me to review once more the summary of historical highlights from 1521 up to 31 August 2009 that I have collated, reviewed for accuracy in reporting / recording, searched for corroboration or contradictory documentation, evaluated the validity of the assertion / contention, and automatically updated with the most recent developments as they occur every calendar month.
Then, I applied the "rule" / guideline that you cited as follows:
The only rule I can think of is that one must give only one answer and then explain how that can be operationalized. How do we unite the Filipino people? Where can we unite? Who will unite us? What shall we unite on?
In order to avoid "disruption" of the flow that you wanted to pursue about "unity", I decided to trigger a new thread, that is linked with the old thread, but which can be pursued as a distinct and separate thread.
That is how the two (2) threads evolved.
Now, each member can choose as to which thread to get involved with. That is the proper perspective at this point.
In short, you are not in any way "forced" to even read further exchanges, much less post any rejoinder in this distinct and separate thread.
That is a basic rule for all members of any e-group in deciding to join in the exchanges in a forum, that is really more an archive of exchanges PER topic / thread. In case there is any issue about it, then we will have to ask the Forum Moderator to resolve it. But from where I am looking, anyone can even choose not to read e-mail notices that involve the two (2) threads at all.
Keep in mind that you posted your rejoinder in the NEW thread with a topic that will NOT involve your preferred topic.
So take it easy in using "labels" inappropriately, like "positive" or "negative" in the wrong context, i.e., limited to whether one agrees or not with you.
I wish you the best in pursuing the discussion of the topic that you proposed. And you do NOT really have to even read anything from further exchanges in this NEW thread.
Cheers!
JM
==
EMMA OROZCO, 1 Sept 2009
FOLKS, HERE WE COME --
DISUNITED AGAIN.
LET'S PUT THINGS IN THEIR
PROPER PERSPECTIVE.
AND ALSO TRY TO ANALYZE HOW EACH ONE THINKS.
THERE ARE NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE THINKERS. PERIOD.. EMMA
DISUNITED AGAIN.
LET'S PUT THINGS IN THEIR
PROPER PERSPECTIVE.
AND ALSO TRY TO ANALYZE HOW EACH ONE THINKS.
THERE ARE NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE THINKERS. PERIOD.. EMMA
BART BARTOLOME, 31 August 2009
Hi there brothers and sisters in this mighty forum;
just wanting to request for your kind favor to the following:
l. How can we unite the Filipinos?
Answer: Understand the Filipino mindset...what is
the Filipino mindset? please explain.
respectfully, bart
just wanting to request for your kind favor to the following:
l. How can we unite the Filipinos?
Answer: Understand the Filipino mindset...what is
the Filipino mindset? please explain.
respectfully, bart
TUMBAGANG ISDA , 31 August 2009
First off, there is no uniting if number 5 or number 6 includes ?Pilipino?,
> why not just make it English only. Use regional languages if there is
> translation into English, to be proper all dialects will not be used, just
> languages. Let me see if I can change one mindset that had been pounded into
> Filipino heads? then continue.
>
>
>
> why not just make it English only. Use regional languages if there is
> translation into English, to be proper all dialects will not be used, just
> languages. Let me see if I can change one mindset that had been pounded into
> Filipino heads? then continue.
>
>
>
NELSON A. PAGUYO, 31 August 2009
The only rule I can think of is that one must give only one answer andthen
> explain how that can be operationalized. How do we unite the Filipino
> people? Where can we unite? Who will unite us? What shall we unite
> on?RULES:1. No name-calling2. No insulting words3. No curses4. Stick to the
> topic5. English or Pilipino, or combination accepted6. Dialect accepted if
> translated into Pilipino for better understanding7. Provide historical
> background if possible8. Be as thorough as possible in explaining the
> point/s9. One or two people may share the same ideaemmaI am game. Let?s
> start.Question: How can we UNITE THE FILIPINOS: Answer: UNDERSTAND THE
> FILIPINO MINDSET. To UNITE is defined as: is to join, combine, or
> incorporate so as to form a single whole or unit; to cause to adhere; to
> cause to be in a state of mutual sympathy, or to have a common opinion or
> attitude; to have or exhibit in union or combination; and to act in concert
> or agreement.For any number of individuals to unite and act as one each must
> have a clear understanding what is in the mind or what the other person in
> thinking; to be able to relate with the decision making of the other person.
> This entails the abandoning of ones usual way of thinking (think outside the
> box), open?mindedness, flexibility and patience to avoid rising the
> emotional aspect of the discussion. The root causes of the differences in
> opinions and attitudes, and the possible implications or results of such
> differences must be openly, honestly and thoroughly debated amicably.It is
> the entrenched positions and or attitudes individuals have [taken] that
> prevent us in uniting. How these positions/attitudes or how we act were
> formed or arrived at were based on our common mentality as a people ?
> colonial mentality, crab mentality, me first mentality, show off/keeping
> with the Jones [materialism] , boastful, rigidity and hardheadedness, etc. ?
> must be looked at from their historical origin/perspective, present
> practices and future implications of such Filipino mindset.Only when we
> understand our Filipino Mindset shall we be able to focus on our
> commonalities, and accept and be comfortable with our differences. Only then
> can we all unite as a people with common goals and dreams to attain.Nelson
>
> explain how that can be operationalized. How do we unite the Filipino
> people? Where can we unite? Who will unite us? What shall we unite
> on?RULES:1. No name-calling2. No insulting words3. No curses4. Stick to the
> topic5. English or Pilipino, or combination accepted6. Dialect accepted if
> translated into Pilipino for better understanding7. Provide historical
> background if possible8. Be as thorough as possible in explaining the
> point/s9. One or two people may share the same ideaemmaI am game. Let?s
> start.Question: How can we UNITE THE FILIPINOS: Answer: UNDERSTAND THE
> FILIPINO MINDSET. To UNITE is defined as: is to join, combine, or
> incorporate so as to form a single whole or unit; to cause to adhere; to
> cause to be in a state of mutual sympathy, or to have a common opinion or
> attitude; to have or exhibit in union or combination; and to act in concert
> or agreement.For any number of individuals to unite and act as one each must
> have a clear understanding what is in the mind or what the other person in
> thinking; to be able to relate with the decision making of the other person.
> This entails the abandoning of ones usual way of thinking (think outside the
> box), open?mindedness, flexibility and patience to avoid rising the
> emotional aspect of the discussion. The root causes of the differences in
> opinions and attitudes, and the possible implications or results of such
> differences must be openly, honestly and thoroughly debated amicably.It is
> the entrenched positions and or attitudes individuals have [taken] that
> prevent us in uniting. How these positions/attitudes or how we act were
> formed or arrived at were based on our common mentality as a people ?
> colonial mentality, crab mentality, me first mentality, show off/keeping
> with the Jones [materialism] , boastful, rigidity and hardheadedness, etc. ?
> must be looked at from their historical origin/perspective, present
> practices and future implications of such Filipino mindset.Only when we
> understand our Filipino Mindset shall we be able to focus on our
> commonalities, and accept and be comfortable with our differences. Only then
> can we all unite as a people with common goals and dreams to attain.Nelson
>
TUMBAGANG ISDA , 1 Sept 2009
Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 6:16 AM
Of course when attempting to unite a group or groups of people the call should be Let us (be) united and not how. Do not ask questions but call for it to happen. But let us see where this one goes.
Of course when attempting to unite a group or groups of people the call should be Let us (be) united and not how. Do not ask questions but call for it to happen. But let us see where this one goes.
PAZOGIE, 1 Sept 2009
How to unite the Filipinos?
Unite for what? For a purpose.
Unity of mindset seems a likely answer.
How to unite is not the question. An exercise in vain.
Let us unite is the better approach.
Look back, see today and view tomorrow.
Trial and error approach.
Compelled by instinct, religion or by politics.
Feeling free and comfortable with each other. How to be?
"To unite the whole for a purpose," is the normal proposition as cited by our Mon, because the solution must suit the purpose. Of course Mon, the purpose may not be stated explicitly, it can be glimpsed from where the question "How to unite?" sprung.
In my view the tacit general purpose of the current unification issue is "nation building," and the particular pressing purpose is a unification for electing the right leader in 2010.
In this specific purpose, I believe Mon rightly comes in. However, the specific purpose must be in reference to the general or overall purpose. The specific plan must faithfully adhere to the overall effort to achieve the overall purpose.
If we accept the overall purpose to be "to achieve the nation we want" and the first complementary step is to elect the right leader in 2010, how is unity to be achieved, or may I be the devil's advocate and ask, is it necessary to unite the whole nation to achieve the goal?
Unity in any group's endeavor, as defined by Nelson, is essential in achieving the group's goals. As an essential it must be fairly understood by the group, but not necessarily every one in the group may understand. It is our experience that for a handful of members, consensus or unanimous consent is readily achievable; however for a greater number, such as a large population, we can only go by our democratic rule of majority rules - simple or 3/4.
Achieving the population's goals rests upon the unity of the simple majority or 3/4 majority, whatever is deemed operational.
JM's "exercise in vain" may be taken as valid if the intention is getting the whole population to be one - equal to a consensus or unanimous decision.
Working only for the majority number clearly means narrowing our focus and scope, and reducing our unification tasks. For the election contest in 2010 it may just be enough for us to work on 25% of the 48.5M registered voters [2010 NSBC estimate] or 12.125M voters, as most political analysts are saying, to get the right leader elected. This is about 12.125/90 or 13.5% of the population [2010 NSCB estimate]. Since there are 17 regions, the winner must get an average of 12.125/17 or 714,000 votes per region.
Is 12.125M or 714,000 votes per region achievable in the context of the proposed solution for unity to get the common choice be president in 2010?
Confronted with such a rather large number, many of our preconceived notions on how unity may be achieved consequently face a lot of scrutiny or critical questions that may affect a change or modification.
Okay, so I ask, for the particular purpose of unifying some 13M voters scattered throughout the archipelago [of differing ethnic characteristics, social status, political maturity, economic prosperity, etc.,] how do we proceed?
On the general question, I have to agree that a careful study must be taken as a first step on how we can achieve the essential "unity" needed for effective nation building which entails touching upon many dynamic complementary factors. Education, as pointed out by Gene, or course is of paramount importance but not the only important factor. In a few solutions it may not be the most compelling factor.
Ogie
Unite for what? For a purpose.
Unity of mindset seems a likely answer.
How to unite is not the question. An exercise in vain.
Let us unite is the better approach.
Look back, see today and view tomorrow.
Trial and error approach.
Compelled by instinct, religion or by politics.
Feeling free and comfortable with each other. How to be?
"To unite the whole for a purpose," is the normal proposition as cited by our Mon, because the solution must suit the purpose. Of course Mon, the purpose may not be stated explicitly, it can be glimpsed from where the question "How to unite?" sprung.
In my view the tacit general purpose of the current unification issue is "nation building," and the particular pressing purpose is a unification for electing the right leader in 2010.
In this specific purpose, I believe Mon rightly comes in. However, the specific purpose must be in reference to the general or overall purpose. The specific plan must faithfully adhere to the overall effort to achieve the overall purpose.
If we accept the overall purpose to be "to achieve the nation we want" and the first complementary step is to elect the right leader in 2010, how is unity to be achieved, or may I be the devil's advocate and ask, is it necessary to unite the whole nation to achieve the goal?
Unity in any group's endeavor, as defined by Nelson, is essential in achieving the group's goals. As an essential it must be fairly understood by the group, but not necessarily every one in the group may understand. It is our experience that for a handful of members, consensus or unanimous consent is readily achievable; however for a greater number, such as a large population, we can only go by our democratic rule of majority rules - simple or 3/4.
Achieving the population's goals rests upon the unity of the simple majority or 3/4 majority, whatever is deemed operational.
JM's "exercise in vain" may be taken as valid if the intention is getting the whole population to be one - equal to a consensus or unanimous decision.
Working only for the majority number clearly means narrowing our focus and scope, and reducing our unification tasks. For the election contest in 2010 it may just be enough for us to work on 25% of the 48.5M registered voters [2010 NSBC estimate] or 12.125M voters, as most political analysts are saying, to get the right leader elected. This is about 12.125/90 or 13.5% of the population [2010 NSCB estimate]. Since there are 17 regions, the winner must get an average of 12.125/17 or 714,000 votes per region.
Is 12.125M or 714,000 votes per region achievable in the context of the proposed solution for unity to get the common choice be president in 2010?
Confronted with such a rather large number, many of our preconceived notions on how unity may be achieved consequently face a lot of scrutiny or critical questions that may affect a change or modification.
Okay, so I ask, for the particular purpose of unifying some 13M voters scattered throughout the archipelago [of differing ethnic characteristics, social status, political maturity, economic prosperity, etc.,] how do we proceed?
On the general question, I have to agree that a careful study must be taken as a first step on how we can achieve the essential "unity" needed for effective nation building which entails touching upon many dynamic complementary factors. Education, as pointed out by Gene, or course is of paramount importance but not the only important factor. In a few solutions it may not be the most compelling factor.
Ogie
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